Jamila Souffrant 0:00

You're listening to the Journey to Launch Podcast, Making 6 Figures Online & Living a Location Independent Lifestyle To Work & Live From Wherever You Want w/ Michelle Schroeder-Gardner.

Recording 0:13

Welcome to the Journey to Launch Podcast with your host Jamila Souffrant. As a money expert who walks her talk, she helps brave journeyers like you get out of debt, save, invest, and build real wealth. Join her on the journey to launch to financial freedom in five, four, three, two, one.

Jamila Souffrant 0:39

Hey, hey, hey journeyers Okay, you're in for a special treat. I am excited to talk to today's guest, Michelle Schroeder Gardner of Making Sense of Cents. It's a personal finance website that helps readers learn how to save more, earn more and live more. Michele paid off $40,000 worth of debt, student loan debt that is in just seven months. And she talks about how to save money and side hustling on her website. She currently travels full time with her husband and two dogs via a sailboat. And I really like this episode, because this really gets you more behind the details of making money online. So Michelle has a really, really successful blog and website, she has courses. But she really started off blogging. And so we get into like how to make money online. So I know I have a lot of aspiring or just people who are already in the space of blogging, or maybe you have an online business. And so she breaks down like what that all is, you know, we talk about affiliate marketing, which is actually a really solid revenue stream. So that's where you refer someone to something that you're doing. So for example, if you give, you know, you get those like emails that Oh, if you refer your friend, you get $10. And your friend gets $10. Right, that's like you are now an affiliate. So it's a really cool way in which if you don't teach something, or have the knowledge of something or the resource, but know someone that does, but you introduce a paying customer to that person, you get a cut of that. I'm actually obviously exploring that and doing that with Journey to Launch right now. But I am doing that with Teri for her course Trade and Travel, which has been amazing because trading is not something that I do. Trading is something that I talked about in Episode 154 and 173. with Teri, because she teaches people how to do that. So it was cool that since I'm not teaching anyone how to do that, I don't know that that's not my wheelhouse or expertise. How can I refer my people, my journeyers, to someone who's teaching that, and then we all win, because you're learning, she's getting paid for her work. And I'm also getting paid for introducing you guys and making that connection. So again, that's just like one small part of how you can make money online. But we'll get more into that. I think this story is also pretty cool, because you'll hear from Michelle that she traveled in the RV full time for years and also traveled on a boat full time. Like, to me those things are so not things in my world. So I'm always loving when I gets to talk to people who do things so different from me are things that I can't see myself maybe doing but then when I talk to them, I'm like, you know what, maybe something we could give a try one day. So I really hope you enjoy this chat with Michelle. And if you are listening to this in real time, today is the last day to sign up to join Teri and I tonight, Wednesday, September 23 for a free class on trading, learning about trading and then also learning more about her course Trade and Travel. Sign up by going to journeytolaunch.com/tradingclass. If you want the episode Show Notes for this episode, go to journeytolaunch.com or you can click the description of wherever you listen to this episode to get the full episode show notes. Now if you are a new listener to the podcast or OG journeyer I've created a Jumpstart Guide to help you on your journey to financial freedom. It includes the top episodes to listen to, the stages to go through to reach financial freedom, resources to help you, and so much more. Get it for FREE by texting launch to 33777 text launch to 33777 or go to journeytolaunch.com/jumpstart to get your guide for free right now. Okay, let's hop into the episode.

Okay, journeryers I'm really excited because I have on Michelle Schroeder Gardener on the podcast. I've known of Michelle and her work for a long time. I feel like when I first entered into the personal finance space, you're already like chugging along with your brand your blog and making money online. Which I feel like for some people, especially when you're not in this world feels like how is this possible? right and so I'm really excited to have you on to talk more about your journey to growing a multi million blog business online. Plus Michelle, everyone Michelle, like you were living out of an RV, living in a boat full time at one point. I don't know if you're still are you still living on boat now?

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 5:16

Yep we're on the boat now.

Jamila Souffrant 5:18

Like amazing. And if you're I'm doing the video recording of this too. So you can also see Michelle, you won't see the whole boat, but you'll see like a little love the inside. So Michelle, welcome to the podcast. I'm really excited to have you here.

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 5:30

Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. Thanks for the great intro.

Jamila Souffrant 5:33

Yeah, well, I should have said Welcome to the rocket chair. I've been trying to say that a little bit more in the episode. So welcome to the rocket chair. I talked a little bit in your intro about you making money online. And I feel like we could probably start there for just people who don't know us that way they pay attention to this interview. But can you just like share, like you went from making a couple hundred dollars a month, years ago. To like six figures a month with your blog.

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 5:58

Yeah.

Jamila Souffrant 5:59

I want to talk about that as just like a starting point for people to realize like this is real. And Michelle knows what she's talking about. And then we can dive more into like your backstory and how you got to this place. So can you just talk a little bit more about you being so open with your income?

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 6:14

Yeah, so I started my blog back in August of 2011. And back then it was all just like completely anonymous. I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't know that blogs could make money or anything like that. And I remember writing on Making Sense of Cents. Like I need to find ways to make extra money. And like that was like a normal blog post for me. Like I was like asking readers and friends because I was anonymous. And I wasn't making money through my blog. So it's basically just like a few people reading it. I was just asking them, like, what ways can someone make extra money? Because I don't I feel like back then, like 10 years ago, no one really talked about, like the things I did on the side. And so readers were just commenting and they were just like, why don't you just make money on your blog, like you're on your blog every day anyways. So it all just kind of exploded from there. Six months after I started Making Sense of Cents I made my first hundred dollars on my blog. And that was through a sponsored post that a blogging friend, they introduced me to an advertiser and just led to a sponsored post. And then it just led to like freelance writing gigs, I started managing social media for websites and stuff like that. But it all really changed when I started focusing on Making Sense of Cents, like entirely in 2015, I like fired all my freelance clients quit all those jobs, and just focused on Making Sense of Cents 100%. So I started making money through affiliate marketing, income, growing my sponsored partnership, display advertising, and then creating my own products. And it all just quickly grew from there. I think it was two years after I started Making Sense of Cents. I left my day job to blog full time. And it's been that was in 2013 when I quit. So it's been almost seven years now. The only seven years and a month. So yeah.

Jamila Souffrant 7:55

Wow, pretty crazy, pretty crazy. And now your blog and your business is bringing in six figures a month. And I do want to dive into more terms because like I know what affiliate marketing is, and you talk about like SEO is also I think one of your strong suits. And I do want to define those terms. Because there's some people who listen to this, and they're just, they're not in this world, but they may be curious, and they want to learn more. So we'll dive into that. But it struck me something you said when you first started you were anonymous, how long did it take you to start sharing who you are and then what I really like about you? It's funny, I like these things. I'm not I don't actually do much of these in my own content. But I like when other people do it is that you're so open with like exactly how much you were making, like you had monthly income reports that broke down where your income streams were coming from. So how did you go from being anonymous to being able to share all that information.

Starting anonymous definitely helped because I felt like I could share like whatever I wanted, because no one knew who I was my real name, what it looks like or anything like that. So that definitely helps when it came to like sharing my income reports how much money I was saving and stuff like that. And then I want to say was like a year and a half into blogging, I introduced myself publicly and introduced my name and my picture and stuff like that. It was honestly just a lot of work to be anonymous and to like never show your picture. And people are constantly just guessing who you are. So I mean, that just got kind of annoying as well. So I just told everyone who I was stopped being anonymous, and I still went with income reports for a while but around a year or two ago, I did stop publishing income reports that was for multiple reasons. It was just kind of I was just rehashing the same thing month after month and mainly for privacy reasons so just like to be able to do what I'm doing and private and not everyone know exactly what's going on in my life all the time. But it was nice while it lasted and everything's pretty much similar so I mean if you just looked at the old income reports it's all pretty much the same anyways.

Yeah. And you know, I again, I struggled with that like being as open like I do share the numbers, and I wonder if this is same for you, maybe not but when I started to share more of my numbers early on, like how much my husband and I saved and that was when Journey to Launch got more traction. Like when I was just kind of hiding behind. Like, when I first started my Instagram, if you scrolled all the way back, it was just like quotes I never really showed myself. It was more surface level stuff. And then when I started to share, okay, this is what we're doing. We save this much here are our goals, more people paid attention. So did you see a correlation with you making more money or having more traction with Making Sense of Cents when you started sharing more?

Yeah, definitely. I do think people like to see actual numbers. I know myself, I love seeing blogs like and reading their actual numbers. I think it just makes it more like attainable. You know exactly what's going on. You kind of know, like, what you should be working towards as well. So that definitely helped for sure. Yeah.

Yeah. And I know, for me, some of the reservations between some like sharing even more is like I have kids, I feel like you know, even though I live in a big city, I'm still just always careful of what's happening. But I do realize and see like how helpful it is because I even now, as a business owner, I love when other business owners share what they're doing or how they're earning income, or that they just signed a six figure contract. Like it just inspires me in that way. So I did make a commitment that no, I don't have to share everything. But there are certain parts that it would be helpful to share with my audience, because I know part of it too, is they're rooting for me to like succeed. So. So when it comes to you, though, now, right? Like, let's like hop into the different ways that Making Sense of Cents makes money, because you first started out just to kind of journal wasn't your debt payoff story or how you are handling money at the beginning?

Yeah, it was like my debt payoff story, living paycheck to paycheck, stuff like that. Yeah.

Right. Like, I feel like I saw most people start out there, like, I just want to, like get this out, or maybe just have like a journal, you know? And accountability.

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 11:46

Yeah.

Jamila Souffrant 11:46

And then you started making money. So what were the so you already said you had like a sponsored post, which I think is pretty self explanatory. But you basically someone paid you, for you to write an article on your site, and they just sponsored it.

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 11:59

Yep.

Jamila Souffrant 11:59

What are the other ways that you started to make money?

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 12:01

Next would probably be display advertising. So there's like Media Net, Mediavine, back then I used AdSense. Now I use Ad thrive. And that's basically just like those little banner ads that you see within a blog post or on the side, no one really pays attention to them anymore, but they do make money. So.

Jamila Souffrant 12:18

But with that stuff, you have to like have a certain amount of page views for them to accept you into their network. Is that true?

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 12:24

Yeah, so AdSense is pretty much like anyone can join. So it's great for newbies. And then same goes for media.net. Next would be mediavine, and ad thrive. And that's I don't know, like what their minimums are right now. But I think it's like 25,000, or 50,000 pageviews per month, those are two really good options, once you get to that level.

Jamila Souffrant 12:42

Right. Which, you know, it's kind of crazy, because I'm not optimized at all on Journey to Launch, don't even go depending on when this comes out. Hopefully, my new site will be up. But like, don't even my site is not that good and is not optimized. And I'm like, wow, I should probably like be trying to do more of this. Because it could be a nice way to earn money in supplement.

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 12:59

Yeah definitely.

Jamila Souffrant 13:00

Okay. But how do you get pageviews? Right, because that's the other thing. So newbies listening. And you know, okay, I have a story to share, whether it's money or not, it could be any topic, how do they start getting people to come to the site?

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 13:12

So there's a ton of different ways for me. And if I was a new blogger, I would go for Pinterest, because I feel like it's so easy to just like, make a nice little Pinterest pin for your blog post and then just pin it on Pinterest. And you don't need a ton of followers, like follower numbers don't really mean anything on Pinterest anymore. It's all about how engaging your image is. It's a really great way to get traffic to a blog. Other than that, I'm also all about like SEO, that's I'm definitely not an expert in SEO, but it's something that I definitely want to work on and grow with. And then there's also Facebook pages, Facebook groups, Twitter, Instagram. Instagram is something that I'm working on as well. Growing your email list is super important. If you have a blog, and you don't have an email list yet, you definitely want an email list.

Jamila Souffrant 13:55

And I want to jump in. So SEO stands for search engine optimization.

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 13:59

Yep. Right. Yeah. So that's basically just Google so when someone Google's something like you want to take them to your blog, so that's just something that you need to optimize for.

Jamila Souffrant 14:08

Right right. And then you just mentioned all these other ways in which you're building community so I know that building community and meeting people was really helpful in getting Journey to Launch out there and going to conferences and then meeting the other podcasters bloggers in the space and I always say this one of the first I feel like hits I would say hits meaning how my name I feel like started to come up on search engines was my friend and you know I feel like you know but someone I look up in the business space Bola from Clever Girl Finance. She actually she was so smart when I first I always say this because when I first started I had like a couple hundred like followers and she had like at the time like 30,000 I think she's up to like a couple hundred thousand now. And she we she listed me like she had a blog post or a article on her site, like top personal finance people you should follow and she listed me as one and I remember just getting listed as that helped, I guess, with rankings with my name. And then so it started to come up. So I'm saying all that to say, but that happened because I knew Bola and we created a relationship, a genuine one. And that's the kind of stuff where it's, it's also helpful, right? Where people will you know, people in the space that help you kind of get your name out there.

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 15:20

Yeah, that's probably the best one networking and forming genuine relationships. So whether that means like you're going to blogging conferences, or attending local media meetups, or just like sharing someone's article on social media, that's like a great way to make friends in the blogging world. And I always tell people, if you're a new blogger, so I feel like new bloggers do this, especially they see other bloggers as competition. And I feel like that really, really hurts them, there's plenty of room for everyone to have their own voice. So you might as well just make friends because making enemies is no fun. So just make friends.

Jamila Souffrant 15:51

No, make friends. And I do think I don't know how you feel about this. But there's a certain point. I know, in the beginning, I was more heavily focused on like networking and meeting people. And then I started to find mine my own voice, I did want to make sure like I wasn't tapping in or looking too much at other people's content. So it's not that I became less friendly with those people. It's more just like, I wanted my ideas to be my own and not to be in a bubble. So I think that's also important, because it's also about creating good content. If your content is not good, and people don't read it and stay or come back.

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 16:22

Yeah, high quality content is super important. That's for sure.

Jamila Souffrant 16:26

Right. So you talk about quitting your job. So I do want to go back a little bit into your backstory and your own money journey to where you are today. And so you talked about leaving your job. What did you do in your previous corporate life?

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 16:38

So as a financial analyst, when I quit my job to blog full time, I did that for about three and a half years. And it was an OK job. It just definitely wasn't for me. I wasn't happy. I was working like 45 to 50 hours a week, which I mean, I know that's normal, but it's it wasn't enjoyable is really stressful job. And I was blogging on the side. And I just loved blogging and coming home every day to blog. So I mean, it was kind of a no brainer, although it was very, it was a very stressful decision to decide to leave my day job to blog full time.

Jamila Souffrant 17:08

Yes. So what made you feel comfortable to do that? What financial or what things did you put in place for that to happen?

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 17:16

So one of the main things that we did was I paid off my student loans. So I made a goal to pay off my $40,000 of student loan debt as quickly as I could. And my goal was, I paid it off in seven months, it was a crazy amount of time. And that's because I was side hustling like crazy at that time. So between my day job and all of my side jobs, and I had a ton of side jobs. I was working like 100 hours a week. So for side jobs, I wasn't just blogging, I was also mystery shopping, taking surveys, selling items on eBay, I had, I had roommates, basically any side job that you thought of I probably tried it and that time frame. Doing that helps me to pay off my debt as quickly as I could. So once I paid off my debt, I felt a lot more free, because I didn't have like that huge monthly payment hanging over my head. So that was definitely a huge relief when it comes to quitting my day job to blog full time. I also built up an emergency fund so that I would have like that stability as well. And even after that I still I think I like wrote about it a ton of my blog, I was still like every day, I was like, should I do this? Or should I not like is this an awful idea? Because I did go to school full time. And I have three college degrees, and none of them are in blogging. So it makes you kind of nervous to think like, Oh, I just like wasted all that time. And now I'm just going to go blog. But no, it was a great decision. Definitely don't regret it at all.

Jamila Souffrant 18:36

Yeah. So as you're talking, I'm just like, same, same same, because it's also the idea of like the sunk cost fallacy, like where you put in so much time and effort into this thing that you thought you were going to do. And then there's like a shiny, possible option that you could pursue that would make you in that moment, feel like you'd be happier, more fulfilled. So do you walk away from the stability and the potential like income, right, because you're a financial analyst. So you're probably potential for income growth is huge. And then to jump ship to, you know, do that. So at the time, were you replacing your income through Making Sense with Cents?

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 19:12

Yeah, I actually was replacing my income. So and I think I actually was making more through my blog than I was at my day job. So I mean, I definitely made it easier. But like you said, I mean, it's like such a hard decision. And then I also had, like, everyone in my life telling me that I was making a mistake. So, what everyone was telling me like, what are you thinking like, you're crazy. So, I mean, that was definitely something that was like in my head. But I was thinking about too.

Jamila Souffrant 19:36

Can I ask about how old you were when you made that decision?

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 19:39

I was really young still. So I actually graduated from college when I was like 19 or 20. So then I worked at my day job for three and a half years. And then so i think i was like 24 when I finally blogged full time. So I know that sounds super young, but before then I've actually been working full time since I was like 14. So I mean, it was actually like a lot longer than it sounds. But no, I was 24. So I was still pretty young.

Jamila Souffrant 20:05

Okay, and now I have just more questions about like, your teenage years and growing up in terms of how you managed to get such a head start because I view that as like a real head start, like graduating early working. So that means you are handling money and getting income from early age. What prompted or led you to that kind of track?

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 20:26

So I've never been like super great with money. But when I was I was 14, and like, there was like a community bulletin board. And someone was like looking for a nanny full time. And I was only 14. And she must have been pretty desperate because she hired me and I was only 14. So I took care of her eight month old, like all year long, and she was a nanny. So I mean, it was mainly on the weekends or whatever, I would work like really long shifts on the weekends. And that was my first like, real full time job or whatever. I mean, it wasn't 40 hours a week is 36. But I mean, that's pretty. That's a long time for a 14 year old.

Jamila Souffrant 21:01

Yeah.

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 21:02

And then after that, yeah. And then after that, I started working at Plato's Closet, which is like a retail thrift shop. And I did that from the age of like, the day I turned 16 until I was 20, until I had my first real job or whatever. And there I was a manager. So I mean, I've been I was working a while before I actually blogged full time.

Jamila Souffrant 21:24

Yeah, but you are working. And then you said you graduated at 19 from college. So were you always really good at school that you skipped grades, or how did that happen?

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 21:34

So in high school, I managed it because you were able to do like a half day off. And I used that half day to work instead. So I got out of school early. So that was really nice. So during the first half of the day, I took like college prep classes. And then the other half I just went to work. So it was it was pretty nice. I mean, I didn't have to go to school the whole day, and I got to make money. So Wow, it's a nice little bonus if your children are in school, and they have that option.

Jamila Souffrant 21:59

Yeah, what prompted you to be so motivated at that age, because I know, you know, a lot of like people at that age, like we're not thinking of that I know my motivation. I got my first job at 14 and that was coming from an immigrant family and like hard work and wanting money. So that prompted me but what for you was that driving force? Because it seems like you were very ambitious.

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 22:18

I guess I just had other friends who were doing half days as well. And no one was really in school everyone was doing half day. So it was kind of just like, Oh, I guess I'll just take a half day too. And I already had all my credits finished for high school. So there was really it would have just been like empty electives I would have chosen so I just decided to do a half day instead.

Jamila Souffrant 22:36

Nice. And and so with that you said you though you weren't really that good with money? So are you doing what? Because not you're making money at like 14 like so what are you doing with that money? Where were you spending it?

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 22:46

I was spending it on clothes and food. I was awful. I liked it didn't save anything. I was not smart.

Jamila Souffrant 22:53

So now you're like an adult? And you're working full time. But you had mostly was it student loan debt? Did you have credit card debt?

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 22:59

It was all student loan debt. And then I also had the mortgage to so...

Jamila Souffrant 23:03

A mortgage. So you bought something that also.

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 23:05

We bought the house when I was 20. I think it was like right before I graduated from college. So yeah, so I was 20 when I graduated from college, and then I bought the house right beforehand.

Jamila Souffrant 23:15

Did you pay off the mortgage too, as before you left your job without something you did later?

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 23:19

No, we did not ever pay off the mortgage. We just sold the house instead when we started traveling full time.

Jamila Souffrant 23:25

Alright, so you quit your job. And now you're able to blog full time? What changed for you then? Because I know that for some people, you know, they're thinking, well, if I had more time to focus on the blog, or the side business that I'm doing, I can earn more or have more resources, because I'm only focusing mental bandwidth, I would say to focus on this one thing. So how did that affect or impact how you earned and your trajectory to freedom.

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 23:52

So for me, it was hard. I definitely did see an uptick once I actually left my day job. But that transition. Basically, I had to make the choice if I wanted to blog full time, or if I wanted to work my day job as a financial analyst, because I was basically I just wasn't getting any sleep, there was no time to continue to do both. So I had to make a decision. I had to lose one or the other. So I figured I'd have more fun with the blog, I was making a really good income. And I kept hearing about everyone else making such a good income. And I figured, well, if they can do it, why can't I? So I figured I would just make the leap and go for it. And I figured I had enough of an emergency fund no student loan debt. So I mean, I had stuff I had a little bit of savings to fall back on in case it didn't work out. And it definitely worked out. So once I left my day job, I had a ton more time of course, and just focused on trying different things to make money through Making Sense of Cents. And it worked out pretty well. I want to say I was making 10,000 in 2013 when I first left my day job, and now it's like definitely grown crazy from there. So yeah, it's a good decision.

Jamila Souffrant 24:56

Yeah, yeah. Now talk a little bit more about you sold your house was that to help prepare for traveling full time in the RV and the boat? Because I want to get to that to that location independent traveling the world lifestyle?

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 25:10

Yes. So we sold the house so that we could move to Colorado actually. And we were going to move to Colorado and find a house there. We didn't want to have like two houses at the same time. So we wanted to sell the one in Missouri. And then we moved to Colorado, and we got an RV while we were there. And it's just supposed to be like a weekend thing and then got the RV and like never went back to the house. So we had to get rid of that one as well. And it's pretty crazy. Yeah, we were, we're, uh, we've been in the RV, or on the boat or whatever, traveling full time ever since 2015. So it's been a little over five years now.

Jamila Souffrant 25:45

Wow. And so you, you're saying we so I do want to like, say or mention. So you have a husband that's on this journey with you, right? Yes, I do. So is he in the online space too? Does he have a location independent job?

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 25:57

No, he does not. He basically just does everything else on the boat or the RV. It's full time Captain on our boat.

Jamila Souffrant 26:04

Nice.

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 26:04

And we have two dogs too.

Jamila Souffrant 26:05

Right? Right. Okay. And was he How was he with this? Was he? Was he always adventurous and in line with kind of your vision and how things unfolded? Or did it take some convincing for this lifestyle change?

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 26:18

People are always like, well, how do I convince my spouse to RV or boat or whatever. And I always say like, the first thing you have to do is there's always one person that needs convincing. It's usually one person who really wants to do and other person needs convincing. I was the one who needed convincing. He was actually always showing me like small RVs and stuff like that were basically just like empty boxes. So we actually just went to an RV dealership one day, I said I need an RV that has like a bed and a bathroom. And then it just like grew from there. The first RV we walked in, we just really liked and that's the one that we actually lived in for about like eight months. And then we decided we needed something that was more full time. So we got something bigger. Then around two and a half years ago, we moved on to the boat. And that's what we're in now.

Jamila Souffrant 27:02

Wow. Wow. So I got to talk a little bit more about the RV life and then we can go to the boat life. Because in my head like I'm just like, well, both my husband and I would need convincing. Like, I'd love to do like a road trip though with the kids like and rent an RV and try it out. I think that would be fun. And then you have two dogs. I don't know if you have two dogs back then two. But how did you manage like having being in a smaller space, and then running your business and life out of that all workout?

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 27:28

So it was pretty crazy. In the beginning. I remember I had like a lot of questions that I think are crazy now when someone asked me them, but I remember I had the same questions when I first started, like how do you do your laundry? How do you get your mail? How did the dogs use the bathroom? How do you eat? I remember I asked someone that when I first started thinking about RVing, I was like how do you cook food? Most RVs have kitchens. So it's a pretty easy question to answer. But I remember I asked all those questions before I started. And it's all pretty easy. Once you start things really aren't too different from like a normal home. I mean, they are different. It's definitely a lot harder to like plan your day by day when you're in something that moves. But every almost every question has an answer. Internet was probably the hardest thing in the very beginning. But I mean, that's not that bad today. There's tons of options probably like 100 maybe on 1000 different internet options this these days. So I mean, it's not as bad. So yeah.

Jamila Souffrant 28:24

And you also traveled around the United States. Can you talk a little bit about like that journey?

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 28:28

Yeah, so we are RVed full time for about three and a half years and we mainly stayed like Mississippi River and then west. So we did. We spent a lot of time in like Colorado, Utah, Nevada, California, the Pacific Northwest and stuff in Arizona especially. And we just did a lot of hiking, mountain biking we love to like just like park the RV like right next to a trail and then just like walk out and go for a bike or hike. I definitely think that's like one of the best things about RV because you're just like open the door and it's like amazing outside. Everything was really great about it. When we're done boating, I definitely see us RVing full time again.

Jamila Souffrant 29:06

Yes. So you mentioned in the beginning late your family was like what are you doing? Why are you quitting your job? How do they feel about you like doing this new thing like traveling full time in RV and now a boat.

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 29:17

So it really wasn't family? It was like mainly friends who thought we were crazy. Friends and co workers and stuff like that. They never really said anything about the RV or boating thing I guess now they're just like, well, are you guys gonna live on a plane next or a submarine? So nothing negative ever came out of it. I know other people have heard like negatives about like living in an RV or stuff like that. But for us it's been pretty positive people join us all the time friends and family. So yeah, it's been fun.

Jamila Souffrant 29:44

Yeah. And now what made you then go to the sailboat because you have this and if you want to check out Michelle's Instagram, because you post all these really pretty pictures of the boat and like you had a video of dolphins like recently that you like sometimes wake up and see dolphins outside your boat. So I just can't imagine like that view and that feeling like each time you're there. But can you talk a little bit about what made you transition to that?

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 30:09

So we just wanted to try something new learn a new skill, just like seek new things and do a different form of travel. So we were arguing for a long time. And while we really loved it, there was no negatives about RV. That's not like why we left it, although that's it. Some people like to say but no, boating is just like it's completely it's completely different, but also very similar. So it's just something new to try. When we figured we're young now, why not just give it a try while we're able to. So.

Jamila Souffrant 30:35

Yeah, where are you boating from?

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 30:37

So we started out in Florida, in Fort Lauderdale. And from there we went to the Gulf Coast of Florida. And then we went to the Bahamas, and then back. And this past year, we did Florida to the Bahamas, to the Dominican Republic to Puerto Rico. And then because of everything that's going on in 2020, we had to come back to the US. So now we're in Annapolis. I don't really know what our future plans because we don't really know. I mean, what's the future in 2020? I don't know. So we're just kind of seeing what comes and then we'll decide what to do in the future. But we're on the boat and just making little improvements here and there to make it good for when we can travel again,

Jamila Souffrant 31:13

Right. Now did you buy the RV and boat outright? And I would imagine your overall living expenses are much lower than if you were living in an apartment.

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 31:21

We don't have any RV or boat loans. A question I get all the time is is RV being or boating cheaper than a normal house. And I it really depends just like how you can like go on vacation, you can stay in like a motel or you can go stay at like a really nice hotel. I don't know what the names would be, I don't ever go to a really nice hotel. But you know what I'm saying like you could say like a $50 highway motel, or you could probably stay at $1,000 plus per night, nice hotel. I mean RVing is very similar to that. You could be arguing at a campground and your neighbor to the left is in like a $5,000 RV and then your neighbor to their to your right could be in like a $2 million RV. So I mean, it really just depends on how you want to travel, you pretty much all see the same stuff. Like I just said, left and right, they're literally 20 feet apart. So it's all just how you want to travel how much what your budget is. So there's definitely room for everyone.

Jamila Souffrant 32:12

Right? So preference, basically, lifestyle preference. Did your husband know how to drive a boat, be a captain before all this? Or did he learn?

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 32:20

So he knew a little bit before I did, he's gone on like many longer trips than I have. But we both took classes, I was definitely a lot newer than he was it's definitely a huge learning curve. But it's a lot of fun. It's nice when you succeed.

Jamila Souffrant 32:33

So you're both co captains. I always like to be open. So I joked before that, like I need a lot of convincing to do that. But I cannot deny when I do see and hear about like this lifestyle. And I don't know if it's something I would do, I could do full time. But I'd love the opportunity to show my kids you know something different because we don't know anyone that does that in real life. I only know like people like online that do it. And so I think about okay, so if we wanted to learn how to drive a boat, how hard is that? How expensive is that. So any tips for someone who's like thinking of this and is like, you know what, maybe I want to try this out.

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 33:04

There's a few different ways you could get started. For me, I actually my first time on a sailboat for more than like a day was we went to the BVIs. And we did like a 10 day charter with some of our friends who also knew how to sail it was actually just less than one of our friends who know how to sell everyone else is like brand new. So that's what we did. And we were on that but for 10 days, and we like just sailed around to different islands and stuff like that. And it was a ton of fun. If you're brand new to sailing, if you don't know anyone who knows how to sail to go with you, you can just use one of their captains at the charter base. So you can just rent a boat. And then like, you can just hire a captain to go with you. So he'll drive the boat. But he'll also he can also teach you at the same time. So I mean, I think that's a really great way to like go on vacation and also see if like boat life is interesting to you. Or you could also if you have like a lake or something near you ocean, just take like a sailing class and see if that's something you're interested in sailing classes are all over. Definitely a lot cheaper than attend a charter. So I mean, it just depends on what you want.

Jamila Souffrant 34:01

Yeah, and it's about like the resources, because even living in Brooklyn, like there are actually dots and those resources available to us. It's more about just calling and finding out about them. Right. So I'm sure like if you're listening, maybe if you do live somewhere, you have somewhere that probably shows you how to do that. Yeah, definitely. Now when it comes to running your business, because you do a lot for your business, right? Like you're very involved, like I went to your blog and you like answer like a majority of the comments, you're so like in there and I think you probably have like a lot of people on your email list like this a lot to run your basic business. How are you managing that and then still like enjoying the moments and life on the boat or on the RV when you are doing it?

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 34:43

So I do have help, but I do so one thing I do pride myself on is that I always answer all of my own emails and I answer all of the comments so people know that they're hearing from me personally. So I guess I should say I don't answer all of my emails. If there's like a tech support email that goes to my virtual assistant. So I do have a virtual assistant who happens to be my sister financials.com and Lexis handles like a lot of the little day to day things that I wouldn't be able to do just because I might not have internet that day. Or I might have like something might have popped up that day. So she like handles some of the emails, tech support the different Facebook groups, I have stuff like that makes some of the graphics for me. Then I also have an editor who is my sister in law, and she does all of my editing. And she's really, really great. She also edits for a few other blogs like Millennial Money Man and stuff. And then I also have Grayson, which I'm sure you've heard of Grayson, but he does like...

Jamila Souffrant 35:37

He's helped me a little bit on my son with my stuff.

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 35:40

Yeah, he's amazing. So and he does like all the tech support and backups and stuff on Making Sense of Cents. And so those three people like really helped me run the day to day so that I don't have to, like go in and do all those small tasks that I just don't have time to do.

Jamila Souffrant 35:54

Right. That's excellent. And I think when you first started making money, what was your first thing that you did spend money on to help you grow your business?

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 36:01

So I started out on Blogger, so my domain was like senseofcents.blogspot.com or something. So I think the first thing I did was I bought that the actual domain. The second thing was eventually I switched to WordPress, and that was self hosted WordPress. And that was like the best decision I made. And then third was I actually spent 100, I think it was $100. On like, my first blog design, like wasn't the greatest, but I mean, there's $100, and I wasn't making money blogging. So I mean, it was definitely like a lot of money to spend. And those three things I definitely think were super helpful.

Jamila Souffrant 36:33

Yeah, I'm sure like, hopefully, if you are thinking about starting a blog that was helpful in terms of the quickstart to get started. Now, in terms of just like your financial journey, so you're debt free now. And the path of the journey to financial independence. So I talk about financial independence on this podcast, but I try to break it down so it's accessible. And like the different steps and layers to get to the ultimate goal. Would you define yourself as someone who is financially independent, where like, literally, if you said, You know what, I don't want to do this anymore. Like you could literally walk away and not ever work again or not?

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 37:07

Yeah, we have enough saved to retire whenever we want. But I blog because I still have it. And it's my business and my baby. So I'm still here.

Jamila Souffrant 37:16

Yeah, and I just I love talking to people. I know. I had Teri on the podcast and Trade and Travel, she teaches trading. And she's the same way. Like she said, she reached her financial independence number, and she literally is doing this, because she wants to, and she actually has a lot of family members working for her. So she's like, I'm just trying to make them financially independent now and like help them but like, literally, like she's good. So I just love actually talking to people, because so often, like, we'll play around with these questions in our head, even me, I'm just like, if I had all the money in the world, would I still do Journey to Launch, like the same way? What would be different? And then I try to operate backwards? Well, let me try to like do it that way. Like, no, no, I actually have to get to a point where it's like making a sustainable income first. But people think about that all the time. Like, what would they do? Would they really do what they're doing now? If they had all the money? And so it's nice to hear from someone who's like, actually, yeah, cuz I don't have to do this.

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 38:06

Yeah. So I mean, there are things that I've changed. Like, I don't write as much as I used to, like, when I first started Making Sense of Cents, I was blogging, like every single day. And that was, that's crazy when you think back about that one person writing something every single day. So now, like, my content is a lot more mindful. I publish something like one to two times a week, mainly just once a week, I'm more mindful of, like, the time I spent answering emails, I've definitely hired help. Just a little things like that have really helped over the years, for sure. And I guess the main thing is, is if I don't like something like if I don't want to do a sponsored partnership, I definitely don't do it. So I mean, I'm only accepting things that I like I truly believe in and really enjoy. So things have definitely I wouldn't I don't I wouldn't say that they've changed because I've always been that way. But I definitely am more that way now.

Jamila Souffrant 38:54

Right? Does it also take the pressure? Because you do have um, definitely like a lot of helpful resources and courses on your site. Does it take away the pressure of like, if you launch right, launching it or selling it?

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 39:05

It definitely takes the pressure off that is for sure. Yeah, I just like off it'll sell it'll sell but I'm not gonna like go crazy. And I've never been like one who's done like a ton of like webinars or anything like that. Like I don't really do a huge launch process and said, I just focus on the content, and what I'm teaching and like everything that goes into the course and stuff and just hope that there's good word of mouth, which there has been for my two courses, thankfully.

Jamila Souffrant 39:28

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so what are your future plans? If you could foresee yourself in five years, what do you see yourself in terms of goals for the business and blog slash just your personal lifestyle?

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 39:39

So that's a super tough question, because I just I can't even imagine what like 2021 is going to be like right now. I guess I would just hope that if I am still blogging, which I probably will still be that it's still just growing I'm helping people. Mainly that I'm just still getting those emails from readers who are like, oh, I paid off my debt because the you like I just hope I'm still publishing like quality, helpful content. That's pretty much my only goal was Making Sense of Cents. Just that high quality content and helping readers outside of the blog. I'm not like super like, I don't like write down goals or anything like that. I've always just been like, do what makes me happy. Like, I don't know what I'll be doing in five years. I have no idea. Just continue doing what I'm doing until it no longer makes me happy. And then I'll stop. But I think I'll still be sailing sailing or RVing for sure.

Jamila Souffrant 40:25

That's wonderful. And and just another question back to kind of blogging. So for people who are maybe working full time, and they're like, okay, I want to earn extra money. Blogging may be a way, can you really still make money like blogging because I know back now, a few years ago, like there was a rush to blogging, and I feel like people made money that way can do people really still make money? If they're just starting out? And what separates someone who does make money like you, you know, or who fizzles out and just like, doesn't work for them?

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 40:55

So I definitely think you can still make money blogging, I still get emails from new people who have taken like my affiliate marketing course and stuff like that, who have told me like they started this year, and they're already making money. So I know it's possible. I definitely think that so for me, I started as a hobby. And I definitely think hobby bloggers can still make money blogging, or if you're starting just to make money, I think you can make money blogging, I think it's more about like, what exactly, you're doing blogging. So there's like a lot of different mistakes I've seen over the years. One, this is like a no one particular order or anything like that. But one is probably quitting too soon. Like, I see people who are one month in and they're like, I'm not making money blogging, like, what am I doing wrong, and it's like, well spent a month. So there's probably a lot of things you're doing wrong, because I did a lot of things wrong the beginning too. So just quitting too soon. You just don't know if things are gonna work one month in, or even six months. And for me, it took six months to make that first hundred dollars. So I mean, it really just takes time. Other mistakes I've seen. I've talked, I talked earlier about the seeing other bloggers as competition, not networking, stuff like that. Three would probably be not caring about your content, content, not everything you do need to promote it and stuff like that. But content is super helpful. Four us probably the most important and that would probably be thinking about your own voice. So while there's like a ton of different money bloggers, if everyone said the exact same thing and the exact same way. I mean, that would just be super boring. You just need to have your own voice, your own angle, what are you bringing to the table? Like what's separating you from everyone else? I think once you realize that, like you, you have a good idea of what your blog direction is. So I would probably say that last one's probably one of the most important just having your own voice.

Jamila Souffrant 42:34

Right? And because everyone's has a unique point of views. And while you may agree with other people, the way you say it, how you say it like matters.

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 42:43

Yeah, well, everyone has a different background too. So I mean, not everyone grew up the same way, or did the same things as an adult or anything like that. So I mean, everyone has their own story to tell, and people want to relate to you, especially when it comes to like finance or travel or lifestyle or whatever people want to relate to you. So they'll find people that they can relate to.

Jamila Souffrant 43:02

Right and what I find like hopeful about blogging and blogging, I you know, we never really like to find it again. This is really for people who are just like, What are you talking about? So yeah, we waited to the end of the interview to define it. But can you can you define like what blogging is?

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 43:17

Yeah, I get this question all the time. And it's like kind of hard to explain. I always just kind of say, like, Oh, it's kind of like a newspaper or a magazine. But it's like, you usually start out a blog. And it's like you're writing articles. And your articles don't really have to all be the same. Like it could be like more like a journal entry, like a diary entry. Or it could be more like you're teaching people something. So basically, blogs, just like written content, or it could be video content on your own website. I think that would be the best way to explain it.

Jamila Souffrant 43:47

No, that's good. And also, even though we both while you started out, you talk about money, and ways to make money. And I started our Journey to Launch as a blog, I don't blog as much or write as much as usually now it's the podcast as my main source. But it was sharing personally and writing the blogs about my journey is that literally, it could be about anything. So if money is not your thing, like you might be listening to this, because you want to get you know better with your money. But you have other interests, right? Like you talk about gaming, clothes, food, anything like literally anything.

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 44:18

Yeah, there's so many different things that you could write about. It's definitely not just money.

Jamila Souffrant 44:22

And the cool thing about it is it opens up so many avenues. So I feel like maybe, so you could be looking for a creative outlet, right? So I always encourage people on this path to financial independence, to enjoy themselves along the way and to find like the little things in life, and so maybe it's getting back to your creativity, if you like puzzles and things like that, like maybe zoning in or gardening, right, like, you can maybe start something around that idea. And then that opens up other avenues that you never thought about before. Like for me podcasting. And then a couple years later, I was able to like quit my job. So not saying that's happened for everyone. But I think following your passion following what inspires you even though it's a little like, you know, I know for some people, like they want the numbers and they want to know that it's gonna be worth their time. But I do think there's something to be said for just like following what feels good sometimes, especially if you have a job right like that can support you.

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 45:14

Yeah, so I think that's definitely what helped me. Since I was working my day job so much. I feel like pursuing like more of like a hobby blog, like how Making Sense of Cents first started definitely helped me. Because I mean, if I was working 100 hours a week, and they were both something I didn't really want to do. I mean, that would have been really difficult to stay motivated.

Jamila Souffrant 45:33

Yeah, I hope this inspires someone who maybe never thought about blogging as an outlet or a way to possibly make money to like try it out. But Michelle, please let everyone know where they can find more about you and all the amazing offers you have.

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 45:46

Yeah, so if you go to MakingSenseofCents.com, you'll find my website in the top right hand corner you'll find like my Instagram, Twitter, Pinterest and everything. If you want to follow my travel adventure stuff, I go to my Instagram which is instagram.com/ MichelleSchro. So those two are definitely be perfect.

Jamila Souffrant 46:03

And I will link all of that in the episode show notes. Thank you so much, Michelle, for chatting with me and the audience of journeyers today.

Michelle Schroeder-Gardner 46:10

Yeah, thanks so much for having me.

Jamila Souffrant 46:16

Okay, journeyers. I really hope you enjoyed that episode with Michelle, maybe it's inspired you to try online, an online business or blogging, or maybe traveling full time on an RV or boat who knows whatever. I love bringing you stories that just challenge what you think you can do and what's normal because you define what's normal in your life, you can make the rules. Once again, if you're listening to this in real time, meaning you heard this the date came out in the morning or in the daytime September 23. Today's the last day to sign up and join Teri and I tonight on the Trade and Travel free class you can go to journeytolaunch.com/tradingclass. If you want to check out the episode shownotes that's where you can get links to anything that's mentioned, find out more about our guests and even get a transcribed version of this episode that you can read. Go to journeytolaunch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode.

Now you can also still grab your free journeyer jumpstart guide by texting, launch to 33777 or go to journeytolaunch.com/jumpstart. If you want to support me and the podcast and love the free content and information that you get here, here are four ways that you can support me in the show. One, make sure you're subscribed to the podcast wherever you listen, whether that's Apple podcasts, that purple app on your phone, your Android device, YouTube, Spotify, wherever it is that you happen to listen, just subscribe so you are not missing an episode. And if you're happening to listen to this and Apple podcasts, rate review and subscribe there. I appreciate and read every single review. Number two, follow me on my social media accounts. I'm @journeytolaunch on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. And I love love love interacting with journeyers there. Three support and check out the sponsors of this show. If you hear something that interests you, sponsors are the main ways we keep the podcast lights on here. So show them some love for supporting your girl. Four and last but not least, share this episode this podcast with a friend or family member or co worker so that we can spread the message of Journey to Launch. Alright, that's it until next week, keep on journeying journeyers.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Jamila Souffrant 0:00

You're listening to the Journey to Launch Podcast: Swing Trading as a Side Hustle so You Can Pay Off Debt Save and Reach your Money Goals.

Recording 0:12

Welcome to the Journey to Launch podcast with your host Jamilla Souffrant. As a money expert who walks her talk, she helps brave jorneyers like you get out of debt, save, invest, and build real wealth. Join her on the journey to launch to financial freedom.

Jamila Souffrant 0:38

Hey, hey, hey Journeyers. Welcome to the Journey to Launch Podcast. I'm really excited as I always am to talk to you. Now in this week's episode, we're almost doing like a continuation part two from last week's episode. So last week on the podcast, we had Teri ijeoma of Trade and Travel. Now if this is your first episode ever, and you haven't listened to any of those previous episodes, I just want to bring you up to speed to how we got to where we are today and what today's episode is all about. So originally, Terry was on episode 154 of the podcast. And Terry came on to share how she went from trading as a side hustle like she didn't even know how to trade, taught herself and got really good at it started to replace her income and then eventually she was able to quit her job, travel the world and she then did teach other people how to do the same thing how to trade as a side hustle to earn money. Now I got such a great response from that episode, that original episode with Teri. You guys had Such great questions about her course, about trading if it was something that you should look into. And so I reached out to Terry, right after that interview aired. And I said, Terry, we need to do a joint class for journeyer. So they can learn more about what you do, because I can't answer all those questions like that you can answer what trading is, and if it's right for some people to take your course. So we did that joint class. And we did that back in June, and it went really, really well. So I signed up to be an affiliate for Terry's course. So it was great, because that meant that now Terry was able to connect directly with you journeyers and give you a resource that I can't honestly teach you. I don't know about swing trading, or trading as a side hustle. It's not something that I'm doing just yet. I actually intend to take her course at some point, but I'm very upfront that I haven't taken her course yet. It's not something that I can manage with everything on my plate right now. But I knowing that that's not something that's in my wheelhouse. felt so just, I felt good being able to introduce you to someone who I believe is legit in teaching the basics and teaching in the right way in which people are actually learning. And I saw that through her results through student testimonials. And now what's even more cool is that since we did that launch, or that class together in June, tons of journeyers, signed up for her course, including my little sister Shaina, which you'll actually hear in this episode, my best friend, like my best friend signed up, and actually a few more people that I know personally, so not just like journeyers, like yourself, who maybe we don't haven't met, but like family members, some of them right, signed up for Terry's course. I even had a group of people from the money launch club. So the money launch club is my membership community. And a bunch of people within the money launch club signed up and we created a subgroup for them so that they could discuss what they were learning. And they even meet on their own in groups to talk about what they're learning and their training. So that they can get better at this. So I was super excited because I knew the next time I spoke to Terry, I would have legit feedback from people that I actually knew who were taking this. I want to show you real life examples of people and how they were able to apply what they learned in Terry's course to their life. Because the thing about Terry's experience, and you'll hear it when you listen to Episode 172, from last week, Terry, obviously she's an expert in this in terms of her results. Now, she is making thousands and thousands of dollars a day on her portfolio because she has a huge portfolio. She's been doing this for years. But what is it like for the average person who has no clue about trading? What is that experience like? Right, because not everyone is going to write off, you know, start off making $1,000 a day. That's the goal for Terry students, but you know, quite honestly, not everyone's going to be able to do that right away. And it depends on how much is in your trading portfolio. So I wanted to know the real deal from people Okay, how did this work in your life? And so you'll hear that from today's guest. So today is going to be a roundtable discussion from three journeyers, who have taken the course trade and travel. And honestly, this is not just about the trade and travel course, you'll hear about that. But I want you to more pick up on the learning process and investing process that they had to go through to be able to take the leap and invest in themselves this way. What I find remarkable is that, you know, even within the roundtable discussion, their results aren't just based on making money. So that's the biggest thing to that. I want to talk about that. This is not a quick get quick money scheme. Terry says it herself in every episode we've done together, um, you hear it in the guest today, that you really have to take the time to learn this. If you're going to jump into this and think, Oh, I'm just gonna make a quick buck. That's not going to happen. You have to really learn the basics and learn it the right way. Or you'll lose money, you know, and it's funny, I hear Feedback from my best friend and Shaina because like I talked to them often. And they're just like, yeah, people who are not maybe following what Terry strategies are in the group because there's a Facebook group that Terry has for her course, like people will come in and say I lost this money. I wasn't following Terry's Terry's path or suggestions. And I thought I could do it my way and I lost money. And let's be clear, even if you're probably following things all the way to a tee, you may lose money. This is investing. There's risk involved in this, right. And so I just thought it'd be really cool to actually show like what it takes really to succeed in something like this. And again, I haven't taken this course personally just yet. I don't have the time. One day, I do want to because I mean, I feel like if I could apply myself and do this and learn it the right way, this would be an excellent second income stream. But for you this is just presenting you an option to learn more about this because my biggest thing is exposure is everything. You can listen to this episode, and even different episodes where I present you may be different options, whether it's real estate investing, you hear someone has a course or someone's doing something and you're interested in it, and you now with the knowledge and information that you have, can make a solid decision on if that's something that you should pursue. And I trust you journeyers that you are actually doing the due diligence to know if something is right for you. Now, again, this is something that you will have to put in some time and effort to do. But I wanted you to hear from real life journeyers from people who have done it, what it's like their experience. Now, if you want to join the next class that Terry and I are doing, it's coming up on September 23 at 8:30pm. Eastern time, it's completely free. I recommend this as a class for someone if you're interested in learning this but you're not sure or you have more questions, and you want to hear more strategies in what Terry's program is all about. This is a great class to come to To learn more, you can sign up by going to journeytolaunch.com/trading class. Again, that's going to be taking place on September. 23rd at 8:30pm Eastern Time, and if you just want to like check out Terry's program, go to journeytolaunch.com/teri By the way, this was one of those interviews that my kids were home and my daughter was not having it. She kept interrupting us, so it was pretty hilarious and overwhelming. At the same time. You can probably see a glimpse of her if you watch this on my YouTube channel. So if you want to check out the video interview for this, go to youtube.com/journeytolaunch or click the link in the episode show notes.

If you want the episode Show Notes for this episode, go to JourneytoLaunch.com or you can click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode to get the full episode show notes. Now if you are a new listener to the podcast or an OG journeyer I've created a jumpstart guide to help you on your journey to financial freedom. It includes the top episodes to listen to, the stages to go through to reach financial freedom, resources to help you and so much more. Get it for FREE by texting "launch: to 33777 text "launch" to 33777 or go to JourneytoLaunch.com/Jumpstart to get your guide for free right now. Okay, let's hop into the episode.

Okay journeyers I'm really excited. I'm always- I say that every time because I am, come on! I am excited each time that I come on this mic and talk to you but I'm really excited because this time, I get to actually speak to real life true journeyers who are going to kind of talk about their journey in learning something new trading. And so I had Teri on the podcast episode 154 was the first episode she joined me are on Teri Ijeoma, where she talks about her journey to learning how to trade and then starting and having a course and platform that helps people do it. And then I did something very different. I actually joined forces with Teri and did like a joint webinar and class to help introduce more of what she taught to you guys, to my audience. And that was really scary for me because I was like, "I'm here I am, like, kind of, you know, handling or trusting my audience with someone else teaching something that I'm not familiar with." Which you know, like that, that puts off on your reputation about doing something like that. But I knew from having her on the podcast and meeting her a couple of times that she was like, legit, and her like content was good. But I was like, I still want to hear from people who actually went through it. So we had that last round, had people go through her course, Trade and Travel. And then I wanted to actually speak to you guys to get the real tea on what it's like to have gone through it to make the leap. So I want to have everyone introduce themselves. So I want to have you each go around and say your name, where you're from and kind of like how you got introduced to the JJourney to Launch. Crystal you can go first.

Crystal 8:03

Hi, my name is Crystal, I'm from Chicago. I started listening to podcasts probably in 2017 when I started my end of my debt journey, and I started listening to Dave Ramsey and I came across Journey to Launch probably in fall of 2018. And the first episode I saw or listened to, was the one we you talked about quitting your corporate job, your long commute, and all those hours and currently I was in the car at 5am in the morning on my hour plus commute to work. And ever since then, I've been hooked on the podcast. And I'm also part of the Launch Club.

Jamila Souffrant 8:48

Yay. Also a memeber of the Money Launch Club. Okay, great. Thank you for introducing yourself Shamessia. What about you?

Shamessia 8:55

My name is Shamessia and I'm from Olive Branch, Mississippi. I started listening to the podcast very similarly. Like I think we all kind of start the same way because I was listening to you and learning how you kind of started to listen to podcasts on the commute to work and the same exact thing happened to me. I started with Dave Ramsey as well. And then I started listening to your podcast and originally, this journey started with me wanting to become debt free, start to invest. I had just graduated college. So it was just you know, ways to kind of start my my life into investing and learning more about finances. But now you know, it's turned into you know, investing and being financially free and not having to work similar to your story.

Jamila Souffrant 9:38

Love it, love it. And then last but not least, we have Shaina. Hi, Shaina.

Shaina 9:43

Hi, my name is Shaina McGregor. I guess I'll just put this out there, I'm Jamila's little sister. So I've known about Journey to Launch from its beginning stages. I remember when you were unsure if you wanted to do it at all. And it started as a blog and then it kind to transitioned into a podcast. So I've been there from day one and it has been so nice to listen and to read. And, you know, I get a lot of my financial advice inspiration from you. So excited to be here.

Jamila Souffrant 10:13

Yes. And so not only are you all journeyers, but you also joined Teri's Trade and Travel course. So as I said, kinda in like the intro, my biggest thing was okay, I wanted to see like results from people who actually like were going through it. And I think I even shouted you out Shaina on the webinar, like, I really wanted you to be a case study too, because I know you personally and you know, your goals in life, and I thought this would be a good opportunity to have you be like one of them. So I'm glad that you were able to join this roundtable discussion. But what I really wanted to do is understand, like, what prompted you to even join Teri's course Trade and Travel because it's an investment. It's not only a money investment is a time investment. And she's very upfront with that, which I love, right? Not just like, "Oh yeah, I'll just help you do this. And it's gonna be quick and easy." But what made you feel like you were ready to learn this and to do this? And Crystal, you can go first.

Crystal 11:09

So I've been debt free, except for my mortgage probably for about two years now. So I have kind of been, "Okay, what's next?" And I toyed with the idea of real estate and realized it was a time commitment. And I still work nine to...nine to nine. So I still work a regular job. So when the Trade and Travel came up, it was a couple of things that happened. When the market went down in March because of the COVID, I already have a lot of assets in the market, but just like in retirement account, and I feel like I don't have that much control of the fluctuation. And I really think because you introduced us to that course, is one of the reasons why I took a chance and did make the financial commitment.

Jamila Souffrant 12:08

Yeah. And actually like that you made that distinction about trying something different because you were in the markets. And yes, you're right when like you're a buy and hold person like similar to myself, it's more like you kind of ride the market wave up and down. But then you hear of this other world. I think the whole point of introducing Trade and Travel to my audience was to give you guys another option of how to do things right? Shamessia, what made you want to like invest to do this thing that's different?

Shamessia 12:35

So I started with uh real estate investing. And it's definitely a hustle and bustle and so you know, with listening to podcasts, listening to your podcast, I was able to discover Teri and I think at one point, she said, "This is a great time, you know, because of COVID This is a great time to start trading!" And I was like, "okay," and she was like, you know, everybody was talking about, well, you know, let's take advantage of this time where have more free time because I've been working from home since March. So I was like, "Okay, I'll try it." And I've always wanted to learn how to invest in the stock market. I think a lot of us want to see that return quickly. So the best way to do that is trading. So I've started to learn with Teri because she just seemed compatible to the way that I want it to be taught. You see a lot about trading like on YouTube and things like that. And it just seemed impossible from the the podcasts that I've listened to and the videos that I've watched, but it just seemed like it will work. So I just went ahead and tried it.

Jamila Souffrant 13:32

Yeah, yeah, I love that too. Because you know, you'll hear there's so many people out there people teaching like this same thing, right, but the style is totally different. And sometimes, you know, it's who you resonate with and some of it is more flashy based. And some of it is more like an aggressive approach to teaching or so I totally get like synching with someone. You're like, wait, I think I can learn from this person. So super cool. What about you Shania?

Shaina 13:55

I agree. Funny story. It was our mom who listened to the your podcast episode with Teri. And she was very adamant that I had to listen to it. And I had to enroll in the course, because she just thought it was something that I would be able to do. And I've had a few long term investments. So I'm mostly buy and hold. And I didn't really put much effort into it, I would just look at it every now and again. But once she said that you can make a livable income and we were in COVID, I'm a dancer and a fitness instructor-lost a lot of my jobs. I was like, this is the best time to jump in. And I fell in love with Teri, I think most of us that's just how it starts. I can tell that she was very knowledgeable. She knew exactly what she was doing. But when you're on a call with her, you could just feel that she's a good person. So after I joined your webinar, I was like that's it. I have to join the course. I have to make it work. I have to find this money for the course somehow and enroll immediately so that's what I did.

Jamila Souffrant 14:55

Right. And let's be real even though you're my sister, you do not listen to every episode, okay? Like so my mom, our mom had to force her to listen to every episode. But, you know, let's talk about the investment piece of it because, you know, I find that like, I don't know about you guys. While I did not join Teri's course this go round, one day I will. I keep saying I will. Anything that I feel like I invest in, like I definitely pay more attention to and the price point matters. Like if something is like on the cheaper side or you know, it's not that much money that I'm like giving up it's not that I won't take it seriously, but it's a different commitment than when it is something that is you know, okay, this took a little chunk out of this saving or whatever it took. So how did you guys reconcile that because I know Shania, like you said, so you're, you know, in the arts and dancer like for you, you didn't have as much like income coming in. So how was that to invest in Teri's course in that way? What did that feel like and how do you feel about it now?

Shaina 15:57

Well, it was definitely an expense that I wasn't planning for and I do like to plan and prep. But I'm also- I can be a bit spontaneous. And when I'm intrigued, there's something I'm intrigued. So I just waited some time, I saved up a bit. And then once I saw that she had the webinar, I literally joined that night. I think it was more getting my head around the fact that it was something that was amazing to invest in. Because I don't mind making the investment and it's worth my time, especially because I knew that there was going to be a return. I knew that after learning from Teri, one because I paid for the course I was going to learn. So I had a goal by the end of the summer, even if it was just a little bit in my life account to start to make those returns and then eventually even pay for the VIP course.

Jamila Souffrant 16:43

Right oh so we should make a distinction. Teri has like the introduction level and then if you want to learn options, and then to get more one on one time with her, there is a next level the VIP level.

Shaina 16:52

Right? Right. There's a Trade and Travel and then there's a VIP.

Jamila Souffrant 16:57

Okay, cool. All right. What about you, Shamessia, in terms of the investment?

Shamessia 17:01

It wasn't difficult at first, because that was not my first time investing in something that would would return because I did the same thing with real estate. And so I was like, "Okay, well, that worked. I think this may may work as well, especially with the way Teri's vibe where I was like, you know, I'm sold." But what also I did I said, you know, it is right what you said if something is a higher price point, you can tell especially if you feel like that person is very genuine, you can tell that it's for a reason. It's gonna make you more and beyond. And so what I did it's kind of funny I love numbers. I love math. I calculated "Okay, what can I flip this to? If I started with this amount? What can I flip this to in a year, if I really put the time and dedication in in it?" Once I realized that I was like, "Oh, this is a no brainer."

Jamila Souffrant 17:50

I love that. Okay, what about you Crystal?

Crystal 17:53

Well, I will tell you, I'm very conservative. So I think if I was still in debt, and I still do have my mortgage. But if I was still in debt, I may have had a more difficult time making that decision. But just from listening to different podcasts, the message is you have to invest in yourself. So I've been telling myself that but I just hadn't found the right niche. And I also listened to the web webcast that you had with Teri. I listened to her on the podcast, and I was hoping you were going to do something in the launch club. And then you did the webcast. And then that night of the webcast is when I joined.

Jamila Souffrant 18:33

Yeah, you know, I'm glad you brought that up with the deck. Y'all a lot of people i'm joined journeyers actually had joined that go around with Teri and I'm sure people just in general, join Teri's course. And what comes up, I think for people's, the people who still do have debt and things and goals they're trying to reach, right because typically, I would say, like Teri's approach to like the Trade and Travel is based on trying to like trade for income. So like, you're trading to earn money, it's not like trading long term. And to keep it long term, it's like trading to earn money so that you can pay off your debt or trading to earn money so that you can have extra income to save for whatever thing you're saving for or invest more towards retirement, you're literally using that money for income. So for someone who is still in debt, right, how would you help someone decide if they should take that risk? Or if they should continue on their debt payoff path, like "Well, you know what, like, I have credit card debt, maybe this isn't right." Like how does someone make that distinction? Because people who've done that have credit card debt, and they're fine and some people are like, they have credit card debt paid for the course and like, "Oh, I don't know if that was the right thing to do." So how would you whoever wants to take that how would you walk through that thought process?

Shaina 19:42

Well for me before I knew that course I did have a little bit on my credit card. So for me it was important to pay that off first, because I have student debt but I don't I'm ahead of it and I know how much I have. So I don't mind having some student debt with the course. But I made sure-for me, it was important to pay off my credit card before I did the course. Because I just didn't want to have both of them. So that was important for me because I think some debt you can have, as you start to invest in yourself, but it depends on the amount. And you basically you're planning to pay it off. So if you invest in yourself, but it completely takes you behind your plan to pay off your debt, or it's something that's going to continue to improve accrue too much interest per month, then I would say maybe not do it. But right now, student loans do not have interest. So of course, I was like, let me do this course. I can continue to pay off my student loans. Credit Card, not so much. So I think it depends also on the interest rate of your loans that you have.

Jamila Souffrant 20:37

And you, Shamessia, what do, you what are your thoughts?

Shamessia 20:39

It was very similar. I think it depends on what your your goals are. So if it's to tackle that debt, and you know, you need to be focused on the debt, then take care of that first. But I also think if you have that mindset where I'm trying to, you know, launch myself forward so that I can tackle this debt and do more. I was investing in the course is amazing. For me, I think it's going to help with being able to pay off my debt so much more quicker. Because for me, it's student loan debt. And it's a very small amount. But instead of waiting, you know, 15 years to pay it off, or whatever the case is, or seven years, I can pay it off so much quicker because I invested my money first, and then was able to make more to pay it off in a lump sum.

Jamila Souffrant 21:23

So now ladies, I want to talk about what you're actually able to accomplish right with taking this course. Let's talk about receipts. Let's talk about what has happened, the transformation for yourselves after investing and Crystal if you want to share kind of what you've been able to do.

Crystal 21:43

So I took the Trade and Travel class in June, and I did do practice trading while we were in the course. And then we had a break in July. So because I also I initially signed up for Trade and Travel but then I upgraded to VIP, which is what I'm doing right now. So, during that break in July, I traded in my practice account. And I was able to make $4,000. And I also started trading in my Live account, but I'm using less money. And I was able to make a profit kind of, you know, same percentage wise. So I had a $30,000 practice account and I made $4,000 off that $30,000 in a month.

Jamila Souffrant 22:30

Nice and I want to-ookay, so and there's a difference between your simulator account and the actual account, right? So Teri teaches you first to trade money in the simulation account.

Crystal 22:40

Right. So in June while I was in the class, I was only using my simulation account. And initially, because that's the practice account, I really did okay, in June also, once I got the hang of it, but July I decided, "Okay, we have a break. I'm going to concentrate on the method and see what I can do." And I made $4,000.

Jamila Souffrant 23:05

Wow. And so $4000 was in the simulation account or the real account?

Crystal 23:08

No the simulation account. So I have started my Live account, but I haven't put as much money in there yet.

Jamila Souffrant 23:17

Right. Okay, what about you Shamessia?

Shamessia 23:20

So I started in the sim account as well, I think I did maybe maybe two trades in the sim account. And I was like, "oh, like this is working." So I immediately went into my Live account started in April. So April to August, I was able to almost double the amount of money that I invested. And so my goal with that was to say, you know, let's go for what Teri says is achievable, which is, you know, you're able to increase your account by 20% each month, you know, that 1% a day. And so that's why I'm trying to be consistent in because you know, what I realized it is the power of trading is in compounding the amount that you have. So you can turn a really small investment into something that's paying you more than your your full time job. Or more than, you know, your full time job pays you in the year, which would be amazing. Obviously have not gotten there yet, but that's the goal. So, um, I think when I started the program, my goal was, you know, let's just make some money, but now it's like, let's keep compounding this thing until you're satisfied.

Jamila Souffrant 24:25

Right so to clarify, you are trading now with your real money and making returns. Nice. Okay, what about you Shaina?

Shaina 24:33

Similar. I started in my sim account and basically Teri teaches us the goal is $1,000 in a day, and I hit that, I believe right after graduation. So July 1, I had like my first return and it was about a little over $2,000 so once I realized I could do that, I had the tools. Then I moved into my Live account. It's similar to Crystal I had to before I moved into my Live though I made sure my sim, I brought the $30,000 down to reflect more of what I can actually do in my Live account just to see also, it's just my goals. So I didn't want to have the same goals with $30,000 as I would have with less. So once I realized I can continue to make it with less money, I moved into my Live account. And it's been in my Live account for about two weeks actually have my first profit today from my Live account. So that was literally about 30 minutes before this, and I was like, "look at that.{ And I was very excited. I had my first loss a couple like a week ago, but Teri teaches us risk management. So it honestly it was not too bad. It was more just the fact that it happened that at first I was like, "Oof" but in reality, it truly was not bad because I knew exactly how much I could potentially lose. So it was right in my bracket. And then the, the profit I made today was probably double, triple that so it's really not that bad at all. So I'm really excited. And then same, I just want to continue to let it compound because I'm starting with a small amount Honestly, in reality, the more money you have in your cash amount is the more profit you're going to make. So that's my goal as well.

Jamila Souffrant 26:08

Yeah. And I love that you brought up that you like lost like money and you lost. That was in your real account, right?

Shaina 26:13

That was in my real account. And I was like, "Ooh, here we go. This is happening." I mean, honestly, if I'm just being real was $20. But still, I was like, "Okay, this happened. This is why everything she teaches us is important." Because if I would have just went off of like a whim and bought any amount, it could have been so much worse.

Jamila Souffrant 26:32

Right. So you got to stick to the plan that's laid out for you. But I do like that we're also talking about there is a chance that you lose money, right? This is investing, there's no reward without some level of risk. But I think the most important thing is teaching you about the risk management part of it, right?

Shaina 26:50

Yeah, hundred percent.

Jamila Souffrant 26:51

Yeah. And so I also want to be real with like people with that too. I think all you ladies you put in the work to like, actually learn what Teri teaches. It's funny because I asked her previously like, what are your students I do the best, right? And she was like the ones that listen to the course like and follow directions and like who relistened to it and really take that time to like learn. And when you're investing in this way and you're serious about it, and I think anyone I hope that invests in this way it's like they're serious, it's not something you just like, "I'm just gonna play around and do this." Like no, this means you've made a commitment to yourself to learn something new. That you are taking the proper precautions because this is... while you are starting in a simulator account and it's not like your real money, eventually the goal is to make back one what you invested in the course and then earn money for your goals and life. So there's going to be a level of risk here that you need to accomplish. You know, the other thing that I think is pretty cool is that I'm sure I have actually my best friend Shelia will hopefully listen to this episode. She also joined when you guys joined, and she's- I don't think started in her real account yet. But I know and she's like getting up to speed right? So I think also it takes people different depending on your life and commitments, right like different timeframes to be ready for the real, real money trading. So do you kind of want to maybe talk about that transition? Because there's, I think it is different between investing in the simulation account and then like, getting ready to invest to real money. So who wants to take that one? Okay, Crystal.

Crystal 28:24

So, I still use both accounts actually. I still use my simulator account and my Live account. I am more conservative in my Live account. So I'm trying to get more comfortable in it. But I am seeing profit. But I mean, Teri always talks about- we are going to have losses, there are days that the market just doesn't do what you expect it to. And you'll have a loss. But in net, you want to come out ahead and or these last couple months. I feel like even if I have a loss, I can make it back. When I saw that market go down in March, and I saw the value of my account go down, the money that I'm using is no comparison to that value that I lost and I had no control over because that's kind of what we've been taught, right? You put in your retirement account, you hold it, you hopefully get a 10 to 20% return. But if I can kind of do 20% per month you're gonna outweigh anything that you're doing in your, in your hold account.

Jamila Souffrant 29:35

Right, right. Now, the other benefit so I remember I was talking to Shaina. Oh, like I was saying, "Oh Shaina, I'm doing this roundtable discussion. You know, do you want to be a part of it?" And she had mentioned like, she was talking and all these this terminology that I didn't even understand. And I was like, "Okay, so even if you never even started yet, in your real trading, like I can already see the growth." But I was just so impressed when Shaina was talking, so the fact that you even know that says to me that like the set point for your understanding of investments are different. So who wants to like talk through what like the learning part of it?

Shaina 30:07

I'll speak on that. I mean one Teri, she's an amazing teacher. So the probe, the course itself is really digestible and easy to follow. And for me like doing long term trades, I kind of just looked at the number but I never really looked at the charts. So even before I started, like, I love math I loved in high school, so I knew that I can do it, but it was definitely a new concept. And she basically teaches you like a couple of things, of course, what companies to look into, what kind of stocks to buy. Risk Management is huge. And then she gets into technical analysis and looking at charts. And when you first look at a chart, like a lot of us I just started with the line graph and like easy to see go up you can see go down and she's like, "no, we're going into candlesticks." And the first time I looked at those I was like, "what is that?" But it's incredible. She's so thorough, and like she teaches us, even if you don't get it within the first week, keep looking back at it. She also has all these bonus calls where she has group calls, and we can look at all of them, even past calls with also other people who are very knowledgeable in trading as well. And by the time she took us through it, even the first week, I was like, I understand this, because she also-I'm also a very visual person. So she has a lot of visuals. She gives stories. She gives analogies. Like I remember I was telling a friend like Teri says, "Don't the way you don't chase men, is the way you don't chase stocks." It's funny, but you remember it. So sometimes when I'm like, "Oh, I missed that stock and I'm like, it's okay, there'll be another one." Like, it's really the mindset also that she teaches you within the course that prepares you to move from your sim to your Live account. Because I am more conservative with my Live account as well. I mean, this our real money is not like $30,000 but in a simulator that okay? If you lose, it's okay. This is our real money that we're working with. But I think that the mindset portion of the course really helped me to be able to make that transition and to feel comfortable and patient. Because you truly do have to be patient. And that's something that I have to work on. But one of the things that I've learned so much and also not to trade with your emotions, so that was one of the biggest things I had to learn being a creative like, I feel like I step out of my emotions all the time. And with trading it's the opposite. She's like, "Base it off the charts not awful how you feel. Don't get too frantic, like I taught you. So trust me." And that was a huge stepping stone for me.

Jamila Souffrant 32:35

I just came up with the new catchphrase base it on the charts, not your heart. See Teri, you got to pay me for that tagline-base it on the chart, not your heart. Okay. What about you, Shamessia, in terms of like your transformation, whether it's like mentally about understanding this stuff? How's that been?

Shamessia 32:53

Ah yeah, it was a it was a huge transformation. I'm the same way. I started trading on Robin Hood. I'm sure everyone kind of starts there with investing in stocks nowadays. But Teri, she taught us to use, you know, a most more robust platform. And when she started to Yeah, the same show as candlesticks, I was always wondered on Robin Hood, like, "What is this for? Like, what is this feature who looks at this?" But it's just emerging. I've been learning Chinese for five years. And it's the same thing. It's like it's way off the beaten path. As far as stocks, it's a new language. But once you immerse yourself into the curriculum that Teri has, it becomes second nature very quickly. And so for me, I mean, from Day Zero to week one, I was able to understand terms that I would hear on the news and it would be like, you know, what is this what are they talking about? So the transition, It was it was pretty quick for the way that Teri teaches because she's very clear. So it's not something that you you hear one time you're like, "what?" You start to understand because she continues to kind of relay that message of what what trading actually is in the terms that you need to know.

Jamila Souffrant 34:03

Nice. What about you Crystal?

Crystal 34:04

So for someone who has been investing for 20 years, you know, I didn't know what a candlestick was. I think Teri teaches very clear and concise, she makes it, I think in layman's terms, so that you can understand. And the other thing, just not just Teri, but the whole network that you get access to, and the other students who have been there longer or even the ones that you're learning with, you can ask each other questions and people are very receptive and try to explain things that's in the coursework.

Jamila Souffrant 34:40

Okay. I want to talk about what your goals are. What do you want to get from not just Teri's programming, obviously, it's a big part of our conversation, but what you're working towards, like where are you currently on your financial independence journey, and what you're looking to accomplish and... because I think that will actually help other people who like "Yeah, I kind of Yeah, I'm at that place too. And I'm looking to do that too." So Shaina, if you want to talk about that?

Shaina 35:06

Well, based off of your journeyer stages, I'm in the cadet stage. So basically, I'm trying to pay off my debt, pay off my student loans, increase my income, I think that's my biggest goal, and increase my portfolio. But my goal in the course is to basically be able to increase my income and have a livable income that's consistent. Being an artist, I can't always depend on that income, but I love what I do. So I never wanted to go towards a 9-5 and be stuck in a job that I dislike. I'm always about following what's my passions and my purpose. So I feel like one I fell in love with trading. Like I get intrigued about trading. I love the stocks. So I love that I can continue to dance and do fitness, but have on the side, something that I'm very passionate about that actually makes returns that I can, know that I can live off of. So first increasing my portfolio and then be able to have consistent livable income that is much more than I have right now.

Jamila Souffrant 36:10

Okay,what about you, Shamessia?

Shamessia 36:12

My goal originally was just to to make more income. But then when I realized the power of trading, when people started to invest a lot of people, they like to leave the corporate world. So that's the direction that I'm headed and to be able to travel full time. So before I started working corporate, I actually studied abroad and when I got back and I started to work full time, I was like, wait, so I only get, you know, a week to travel. How am I going to do that? So once I realized that trading would allow me to travel but still make income, that kind of became my shift to where now I want to travel full time.

Jamila Souffrant 36:49

Oh, love it, love it. Okay, Crystal.

Crystal 36:52

My current goal is I'm trying to become more flexible. I am currently in corporate America with the long commute, ,not right now because of COVID. So I use this course as an extra stream of income. That's what I'm hoping to use it for. And since I do still have my mortgage, if I can be successful, I'm going to focus on using the extra income to pay off my mortgage to get to that goal.

Jamila Souffrant 37:21

I love that. I feel like I definitely need to have like an updated conversation with you ladies in a year to see and dive more into your individual stories. By the way, no one was paid for this interview. Like everyone's really speaking from the heart of what their experience with Trade and Travel, but what I'm really trying to connect with, hopefully, if you're listening to this or watching this, if trading is something you're interested in, check out Teri's program. If you're not ready, that's fine too. Or so you want something different, that's fine too. What I see as a trend or just something I'm pulling out from each of your experiences so far is that investing in yourself and taking educated and safe risk and you know, in the in the grand scheme of things, right? You're not investing your like mortgage or like your last dollar, but like you're taking a risk to better yourself and invest in yourself, I think, for anyone I've seen like that is the path forward, whether it's Teri's course or just investing time to sit down and like, read a book or buy, buy something else that's gonna help you get to the next level. I feel like that is I hope, what I can impart and people like watching and listening, is that make the time and energy and space in your budget, in your life to invest in yourself? And so with that, I'll just go around, is there any kind of like, last words of encouragement for anyone who is thinking about this course or just thinking about their journey to financial freedom and need some encouragement? What would you say to them? Shaina, you can go first.

Shaina 38:45

I feel like if you have that inner voice inside of you telling you that you want to try something new, especially if it is this trading course or something else I say go for it. There's always going to be a little bit of a financial burden per se. I say that with air quotes because you can surpass that you can get past that. But you have to invest in yourself first. And then once you do that, whether you get exactly what you thought you wanted, you've grown by taking that jump. And I think that's the biggest thing is to get out of our comfort zones and try something new. And you never know what is at the other side of just going for it. It can be that you're staying in trading for five plus years or you meet someone, you do something completely new because of it. So I would just say go for it.

Jamila Souffrant 39:29

Right. Shamessia?

Shamessia 39:30

Whatever you work on can come to fruition. I think that there's always a lot of doubt and "will something work?" But I will say if you put the work in, it will work. And trading is a great way to do that. If it's been something that you're looking into because it's not a lot of time involved with swing trading. I'll say there's not a lot of time involved, but there's a big reward. So I would say go for it.

Jamila Souffrant 39:53

What about you Crystal?

Crystal 39:54

And I will say, this is a skill that you can use whenever you want to. If you don't have the time now if you learn it, you don't have to do it consistently you could do it when you decide you have more time to invest, but it's definitely a skill that I never thought I would learn. I wasn't necessarily interested in trading. But now that I've started I've fallen in love with it. I love it.

Jamila Souffrant 40:21

Yes, love it. Okay, well thank you so much, ladies for taking the time to share your experiences. I'm so glad to actually see your faces. I know like it's always kind of cool when I have people I'm always talking to myself usually I mean what I have interviewing guests right? But like, listeners, actual people who listen like I know you're out there but it's nice to like see your face and connect with you in this manner. I know not all you may be on like social and like public. But if you are and you want kind of like other journeyers to root for you, if you do share your journey. I'll give you the opportunity to like share that now. So Shaina, I know. Shaina's building her brand. She's building her brand so she can make some money off of that. So what is your Instagram Shaina?

Shaina 40:58

Absolutely, you know it. So, my Instagram is @Shaina.McGregor.

Jamila Souffrant 41:04

And what are you talking about? You're talking about inspirational stuff on your and hair, right? That's like your niche right now.

Shaina 41:10

I do. So I basically I share dance fitness and inspiration, I eventually want to get into life coaching. So that's something that's also been a passion of mine. So I've been slowly starting to integrate that within my Instagram.

Jamila Souffrant 41:25

Awesome. I'll link that in the show notes. Does anyone else want to share any social handles?

Shamessia 41:29

My Instagram is @MemeLee_underscore. And yeah, I'm here to talk about trading. I'm not too comfortable with sharing my journey yet, but I think I'll get there because it is important. But if you want to hit me in the DMs we can we can talk about trading because I love it.

Jamila Souffrant 41:48

Awesome, awesome. And Crystal, you want to share or you good?

Crystal 41:52

I'm not a social.

Jamila Souffrant 41:54

Okay, listen, that is totally fine. Listen, everyone's journey is not meant to be the same, but I want to give you got the opportunity to share in case people wanted to, you know, hit you up or just follow you and support you on your journey. So once again, ladies, I really thank you for taking the time to do this.

Shaina 42:10

Thank you.

Shamessia 42:11

Thank you.

Jamila Souffrant 42:17

Okay, I really hope you enjoyed listening to that episode. You can also watch it by the way. So if you wanted to watch that roundtable discussion, you can go to my YouTube channel@youtube.com/JourneytoLaunch. I'll also probably be posting clips of it on my social media. But like I said, even if trading is like not your jam, you have no desire to learn how to swing trade. I hope that you've got from this episode that you can really literally learn anything you want to as long as you put your mind to it, you set some time aside and you invest in yourself. And then if you are interested in learning more or joining Teri's course go to JourneytoLaunch.com/Teri or if you want to learn more in our free class that we're doing on September 23, join us at JourneytoLaunch.com/TradingClass, there you can enroll and meet us.

If you want to check out the episode shownotes that's where you can get links to anything that's mentioned, find out more about our guests, and even get a transcribed version of this episode that you can read, go to JourneytoLaunch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode. Now you can also still grab your free Journeyer Jumpstart Guide by texting, "launch" to 33777 or go to JourneytoLaunch.com/Jumpstart.

If you want to support me and the podcast and love the free content and information that you get here, here are four ways that you can support me in the show. One, make sure you're subscribed to the podcast wherever you listen, whether that's Apple Podcasts, that purple app on your phone, your Android device, YouTube, Spotify, wherever it is that you happen to listen, just subscribe so you are not missing an episode. And if you're happening to listen to this in Apple Podcasts, rate, review and subscribe there. I appreciate and read every single review. Number two, follow me on my social media accounts. I'm @JourneytoLaunch on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. And I love love love interacting with journeyers there. Three, support and check out the sponsors of this show. If you hear something that interests you, sponsors are the main ways we keep the podcast lights on here. So show them some love for supporting your girl. Four, and last but not least, share this episode, this podcast with a friend or family member or co worker so that we can spread the message of Journey to Launch. Alright, that's it. Until next week, keep on journeying journeyers.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Jamila Souffrant 0:00

You're listening to the Journey to Launch Podcast an updated conversation with Teri Ijeoma, who since our last conversation has reached financial independence, bought her dream home in cash, and amassed a $2 million portfolio. Let's get into it.

Recording 0:20

Welcome to the Journey to Launch Podcast with your host Jamila Souffrant. As a money expert who walks her talk, she helps brave Journeyers like you get out of debt, save, invest, and build real wealth. Join her on the Journey to Launch to financial freedom in five, four, three, two, one.

Jamila Souffrant 0:47

Hey, hey, hey Journeyers! I hope just from the intro that you're excited about this episode. Now a little background. So Teri Ijemoa she was on episode 154 for the podcast. So a few episodes back. And I knew the conversation that I first had with her was epic and amazing. And it was validated because once I put out her episode, so many people were interested in more in learning what Teri teaches-trading, swing trading. And Teri, if you heard that episode and follow her at all, you know that she has a knack and gift for teaching trading, for talking about her story, for inspiring people. So when Teri was on the podcast, and I released the episode, I had so much incoming messages wanting to learn more from Teri. And so Teri and I teamed up a few weeks later, and we did a joint webinars/class where I introduced you journeyers more to Teri so you can dive deeper into what trading is all about. And specifically, just ask her questions and learn more about her program- Trade and Travel. And so we are teaming up to do it all over again because it went so well. The last time we did it, I had so many people actually join her course I became an affiliate for Teri for the course. And so many people took the course are raving about the course. And you'll hear about that in another episode. And so I was like, "We need to do this again," because I want as many people who are ready to learn and take this step, be prepared, and have Teri as a teacher if they are willing. So I'm inviting Teri back on the podcast. So this episode is an actual new conversation with Teri, because even since our last conversation, she's been up to so much, she has reached financial independence. So literally, Teri does not even have to do this anymore. She doesn't even have to teach her Trade and Travel course anymore. She could literally live off of her portfolio, which you'll hear her talk about. It's about a $2 million portfolio. She said at the time, we recorded that. She bought her house in cash. Hello? And she's continuing to help students though, realize their financial goals and dreams. So I wanted to bring her back on to one- just dive a little bit deeper into what's been happening with her and just about trading and what it takes to succeed in this manner, right? Because while it's great and it something that I want more people to learn about, I want you to be prepared. If you are going to invest the money and time to learn trading, I want you to know the real deal that it does take work, it takes dedication. And Teri and I talked about that.

With that, this conversation was so interesting. So we recorded this in August. And it's funny, so let me try to do this as quickly as possible. For the month of August, we kind of have been riding solo because my aunt who usually helps with the kids is on vacation, so much needed vacation. And so we have the kids and it's been hard trying to get work done quite honestly, with the kids, because you know, they're only six, four and two, they need a lot of attention. And even if we give them their iPads, sometimes that doesn't matter, they still want attention. So this episode, we recorded the audio and the video versions. It may be that you hear my daughter or kids in the background, even if you're watching this on video, so you can go to my YouTube channel to watch the video. You may see a glimpse of my daughter. She kept coming in to the interview. And Teri was so gracious about it. I kept having to stop and kind of redirect my daughter because my husband he had stepped out. So it was that whole day was just like hello working parent working mom. I feel the struggle, but we got through it. I think we still had an amazing conversation.

So just a couple things, some links that you may want to write down and check out. If you are interested in joining Teri's program, you can go directly to JourneytoLaunch.com/Teri. That's my affiliate link. If you still after this episode, you want more information, you want to join us to learn more like in a free class, then join us we are doing a free class again later on this month on September 23 at 8:30pm eastern time. You can sign up now by going to JourneytoLaunch.com/tradingclass. So make sure you grab your seat to learn more. If you want the episodes Show Notes for this episode, go to JourneytoLaunch.com. Or you can click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode to get the full episode show notes.

Now if you are a new listener to the podcast or an OG journeyer, I've created a Jumpstart Guide to help you on your journey to financial freedom. It includes the top episodes to listen to, the stages to go through to reach financial freedom, resources to help you, and so much more. Get it for FREE by texting "launch" to 33777. Text "launch" to 3377 or go to JourneytoLaunch.com/Jumpstart to get your guide for free right now. Okay, let's hop into the episode.

Okay Journeyers I'm so excited to bring back this superstar guest Teri! I think like we are episode I felt like I got the most feedback from. So Teri Ijeoma was on episode 154 of the podcast so you can listen to this one if this is your first time listening to Teri, and then make sure you go back and listen to that one. But when you were on that episode, so many people like reached out to me after about, okay, I want to learn more about Teri, her course because we talked about this course that we're gonna talk about a little bit later because you had such a dynamic story! So I don't want to like go too deep in it because I feel like if you heard it already, then you know, but I do want to for people who are just like, wait, what's going on? Who is this girl? That they get just a brief sense of your journey to being Teri and I was gonna say master but it's their woman thing for master whatever. You're the master man or woman. You're the master of trading and how you think and how you got here because I just think it's just so amazing.

Teri Ijeoma 6:48

Ah, quick recap is I used to work in education and nonprofits for about 10 years and I dedicated my whole life to that but had a good time. But I was stressed and in toxic work environment and needed an exit strategy. So I decided that I was going to trade stocks in order to replace my income. And my last job, I was an assistant principal of an elementary school, I needed about $300 to replace my income. So that's what I did. I started trading stocks, I buy stocks, sell it a little higher, make that extra income. And then eventually I was able to quit my job and start traveling around the world. So went to Asia, Thailand, Vietnam, Australia, Israel. And then the last time we talked, I was actually in South Africa during our podcast. So it's just been amazing learning how to use stocks to afford my dreams. And now that's what I teach other students to do, too.

Jamila Souffrant 7:43

Yeah, and so that was like the main thing people were saying like, "Is Teri legit?" So part of it was like, they just got that sense from you. Because you have such I always say this because it's true. You have such a warm personality. And it's not just like, just online like in person I met you and it's real guys. I'm telling you. It's real. Like, just like the energy that she emits and so I felt like that was a real draw for people. Because sometimes within this space, like you want to learn these things, but then you want to trust the person that you're going to be buying from or learning from. And when it comes to especially investing, there's so many, right, there's other legitimate sources that you can learn from. But I think in this sense, where it's this goal that people want to learn to do like like trading, and it seems sexy and fun, not only do you like show the results, but you also learn know how to teach it too, which is like within the course. But you've also since our conversation also had some amazing milestones. So I do want to touch upon that because you first just said, when you originally started trading, it was to replace your income, which was a couple hundred dollars a day that you needed, right?

Teri Ijeoma 8:46

Yeah.

Jamila Souffrant 8:47

Since then, now, you've come to the point where you I don't want to like steal your thunder, but tell everyone what you've been able to do even since our conversation last time.

Teri Ijeoma 8:55

Okay. Okay. So our conversation was around February and I just know that because I was in South Africa living my best life. And I'm so glad that I went right before COVID because otherwise I would have been stuck at home. So like that was one of those like, "Man, Lord, I'm so thankful I took advantage of that moment" because you just never know what's gonna happen next. And since then, of course, came back home, stuck at home because quarantine happened, the market crashed, but that was a blessing, such a blessing because, for me, I know how to make money when the market goes up and down. So one of my big goals this year is I wanted to learn how to make six figures in a day in the stock market. Of course, I started at $300 worked up to $1,000. So my big goal was, can I make $100,000 in a day trading stocks and girl I did it during quarantine. I did it actually several times. I did one on Boeing I had like $100,000 a day. Then I did another one on American Airlines a little further down made like $200,000. Then I had like a $500,000 day so the stock market has been great. And I've been so like, I've been amazing myself at the numbers that I've been able to do, which is pretty cool. And then my students have been doing well too. So like our goal is to help 1000 students make $1,000 in a day, it's called, like our million dollar a day mission, because we can generate million dollars to actually change the world. And like, over 300 of them have now gotten to the thousand dollar day club too. So students have been killing it. I've been killing it. It's just been like this super cool journey the last few months.

Jamila Souffrant 10:31

Yeah. And you know, I do want to step back, I want to define trading because this is something where, you know, for me like I don't trade in the way you do. I'm more long term investor, put my money into the market and index funds and let it go, right? I wanted to define trading the way you're talking about it. Because I feel like for some people who are hearing it, they're like, wait, wait, trading, like what does that mean? And then like, I want to talk about the things you can do when you're generating income from trading. Yeah.

Teri Ijeoma 10:58

Yeah! So the way the IRS or the government would designate a trader is I'm somebody who actively invest for income. So there are some people who may buy a stock today. And then they hold it for the long term for retirement. Long term and investing world is like a year or more you hold the stock. But if any, if you're trading that means that you're you could be day trading or swing trading. Day is I get into a stock and one day and sell it that same day or swing trading is I get into a stock and I hold it three days to a few weeks or even a couple months. But that would be an active investor because we're trying to actively invest for income. And what this looks like for me is like, right now I just bought this new house. And I know Jamila is going to be like,"Yes, Teri, tell us about your house." So like I just bought a new house, but one of the things that I really want to get is a swimming pool. And so I've had two vendors come and they came and I was so excited until they told me the price they were like, "Yeah. To build this pool is $80,000." And I was like "What at what?" First of all, how much does it cost for me to get a shovel and use it as my workout plan, right? But then I was like, oh, but they need to be professionals and get permits and stuff. So maybe I'll let them do it. But it's $80,000. So when I'm thinking about using stocks for income, my recent goal is okay, well let me trade in order to afford the pool. So I broke it down. I said, Okay, if I can make $3,000 a day at trading stocks that would be like, Here, I'll tell you how to do it in a second. But first, let me break down my goal. So if I could make $3000 a day, that's $15,000 a week because five trading days a week, that's $60,000 in a month, if I just am consistent with making $3000 a day. So I said, "Okay, well what can I do to make $3000 a day?" Well, I can get 300 shares of a stock that moves $10 a day so that could even be like a Netflix or Salesforce, they move about $10 so if I had three hundred shares of one of those stocks, then that would help me reach my $3000 a day. Or I could get more of like 1000 shares of something that moves $3 a day. So that could be like an Apple if I could afford it. So like, basically you're looking for good healthy companies, and then however many shares you get you times that by how much it moves, and that's your profit. And you try to sell within a reasonable time so that you can use that money for your goals.

Jamila Souffrant 13:28

Yeah, and I love the distinction- so you're trading for income. So I have people who even so when we had our interview, Episode 154 and we actually did a joint class together where people, journeyers joined your program. And one thing that I wanted to like make clear even like in that presentation that we did together was you know, this is like trading like as a side hustle like to generate income to help you pay off debt to help you reach your financial goals, right? So not necessarily like how I usually talk about investing which is like you know, for the longer term and financial independence. Which this actually does help you reach financial independence if you are using it for your goal. So not like, "Okay, I'm making $1,000 a day. I'm just like spending it on whatever." It's like, no, this is I'm looking at it as actually income to help me pay off that debt, save that emergency fund and do all these other things.

Teri Ijeoma 14:16

Yep. It's-I would think of it as the difference between a flipper in real estate and a long term investor in real estate. So they're both investors, they're just different methods. If you're a long term investor, you're waiting for the stock or the house to appreciate or maybe you're doing rental income, you're just thinking of different ways to make money. But if you're a flipper, then you're going to buy the house lo fix it up, and then sell it real fast, and you take the cash real quick, neither one is better or worse than the other. They're just different ways. And it depends on your goals. If you need the money quickly, then you can basically "flip the stock." You're just going to be getting in and out of the stocks that you normally would have kept for a longer time. If you don't know need the money, then you can let that sit for a while. So it's just neither one's better or worse. It's just different depending on your goal set.

Jamila Souffrant 15:07

Yeah, I like that. Well, I'm able to talk to you in this way, because again, this was foreign to me. And it's not something I have personally done yet legitimately. I always say like if I had the time and it's an excuse, right, because there are people who are way busier than me who are doing your your program and succeeding. But like, it just because it's new or different for me, doesn't mean my journeyers couldn't benefit from learning this method from something different. Like I like to say like, this is a buffet, I like to present you with the options help you make and take the educated risk, and to try something I'm different and new, especially if you tried things before or you knew this is something you're interested in and you want to learn about, here's a really legit option for you to explore.

Teri Ijeoma 15:49

Yep. And it's a skill set. So I like to tell people, it's a skill set that you can use whenever you have time. So like maybe right now you're super busy. You don't have time to look at the market and see where the stocks are going. But you know, another week you're sitting on the beach like I've done, I said on the beach in Mykonos one time, I'm looking at my cell phone and the, you know, the brokerage is on my cell phone. I made $20,000 sitting on the beach chillin. So it's a skill set that you can use when you want to. And one of the things like someone asked me recently, they were like, "Why do you think a lot of new investors are not doing well at trading? Like, you know, you hear about all the people getting into like Robin Hood and stuff and they're like, why do you think that they don't do well?" I think it's because they forget that it really is a skill set and you have to actually get education on how to do it right. I'm not sure what it is. But for stocks, they assume that you can just kind of learn you know, I'm gonna get in and I'm just gonna know how to make it work or I'm gonna figure it out on my own. Hey, baby girl. Before investing, it doesn't work like that you need education, just like any other skill set. If you were going to learn to be a doctor, you got to go to school first. If you're going to even learn how to speak a new language-Spanish, French, you need to take some classes when you learn how to take some classes and investing you can you can pick this skill set up too.

Jamila Souffrant 17:08

I think too like because so many are in it for like that quick win which I know it's very appealing or...

Teri Ijeoma 17:13

Yeah appealing is a good word.

Jamila Souffrant 17:14

And then you know people market to it and that way like whereas it's like oh it's super easy here just like do this and I can help you make a gazillion dollars and not much work. And that's like that's not the case. You do have to set aside time and learn this stuff. But when you put in the work there is a benefit. So a couple other things that you were able to do so you bought your home and you bought it in cash.

Teri Ijeoma 17:36

I did, I did

Jamila Souffrant 17:37

Talk about it!

Teri Ijeoma 17:40

This year has been super crazy for me because I actually never intended to buy a house. I always thought that because I want to travel and be free, that I would just you know maybe do luxury Airbnb's around the world and like house was not on my vision board for 2020. But then I realized that where I was renting was like three times the price of a mortgage. Like I was paying $4500 a month for rent and it was beautiful. I had like this high rise and I could see the whole city but at the interest rates that the mortgage had come down to, like that was like three mortgage payments. So I started looking for houses and then I ran into the issue of because I'm a entrepreneur, I didn't have the paperwork they wanted to afford the houses they said I could afford. And I'm like but you guys see my bank account I literally have enough money to buy this flat out in cash but you guys won't give me a mortgage. So then I had to boss up put my big girl panties on and say well it's fine then I'll just pay for it in cash.

Jamila Souffrant 18:41

Wow.

Teri Ijeoma 18:42

Mm hmm

Jamila Souffrant 18:43

Being able to do something like that right? Like I that's one of my dreams like to pay off my mortgage and or if you want to buy something else you have enough like in cash to do that. And I'm sure people listening because I had Kumiko from the Budget Mom-she was able she saved up and bought her her dream home in cash. and as we all know, like mortgage is your like biggest expense. So for a lot of us to think about not having that is amazing, but the way you've done it so like breaking down your path to being able to do this was like you saw an opportunity to just earn some money on the side, and then replace your income. But then there was an opportunity to because you combined all your previous skill sets to like as a, you know, being an administration to be able to teach this stuff. And I often think about, like how many of us are sitting on a skill set that not only can we earn money from like, if we were doing it one off, but also, so many other people want to learn from us, right? Like, what is that unique thing that you would be able to teach or do that you can bring to the world and have not only you benefit, like can you make a profit, but your people succeed? And I just think that's an amazing story because I know that everyone's like sitting on something that they could do that with.

Teri Ijeoma 19:54

Yes. And I think if there's something that you hear people keep saying, please pay attention to it. Because for awhile, I was running away from the gift of teaching, even when I was in education. I always said, "Well, I don't want to be in a classroom." I think I actually would have loved it now seeing how I enjoy teaching. And most of my students now are adults, you know, like they're 35 to 55, either about to change jobs or looking to retire soon and want to make their money work for them. But I always ran away from being in the classroom. I was like, "I'm going to be in an administration. I'll run the school but not be in the class." But it's a gift! Everyone that I run into says "Man Teri! There's just something about the way that you teach. You know how to break it down and make it simple. Like I can understand it when you teach it." And I think that is a gifting that just really speaks to me. That's my superpower. I'm a teacher.

Jamila Souffrant 20:47

Yeah, yeah. And in terms of your journey to do this, right, so one of the things that we did talk about offline is that now you've also reached a point where you've reached financial independence. Like literally if you did not want to like run your business anymore, right? Like you would be okay to sit and chill.

Teri Ijeoma 21:03

Totally fine. Yep.

Jamila Souffrant 21:06

So let's talk about that because I do talk about financial independence a lot and people reaching that and love that and basically, meaning you have all the money you need to live and sustain your lifestyle, so you don't have to actively work again. So for that mean, like literally like, you wouldn't have to even do trade and travel anymore if you didn't want to? Like you could just trade your own your own money and to be good or you don't even have to trade again, really?

Teri Ijeoma 21:27

I don't even have to trade again. So okay, so let me paint a picture for you guys. So imagine if you were able to buy a home that was over $700,000 in cash. Imagine if you were able to still pay your staff. Now I have five staff and three of them are family members. So now you're able to pour money into your family. Imagine if you were able to generate like hundreds of thousands of dollars in a day trading stocks or you have a school that's also generating income because people are signing up each day. So this is this is my FI. So I reached a place where I've now had an account where I put like $2 million in it. And that account, even if it just makes 2% interest and so I'm working with Trade Stations, my broker, they've been trying to help me figure out ways because savings accounts don't have a lot of interest right now. But there are ways that you can invest in certain things. Like I don't really like crypto, but there are certain crypto things that give a 2% return or even the way I invest in stocks. There are some things where I could do a longer term investment and they move more than 2% a month. So even if my the money in there was invested in a couple different stocks and it made 2% a month that's still $40,000 a month. That was my whole assistant principal salary for the year back in the day. So now I've gotten to the place where my cash can start making me more in a month than I used to make in a year. I'm totally good. I don't have to have the school. I don't have to really day trade or swing trade if I didn't want to. But I mean, cool thing is I love both of those things. So I'm gonna keep doing it. But yeah, that's where I'm at now.

Jamila Souffrant 23:11

Yeah, I think that is where everyone is working towards because we often say okay, what would you do if you did not have to earn the money right? If you had enough money to never work again. And the fact that you're still working and doing it is a testament to like this being your passion. So I love also that you just said like, you're employing your family members. Again, I don't see why anyone else like wouldn't want to attempt this. Now, the one thing I will say is like, you know, you're one amazing case study. If there was a best case scenario, like you're like, you know, how they have like the range of people. Yeah, you'd be the best case like ultimate scenario but and you know, there of course, I'm sure some people who with all intentions try to do something like this, but just can't get it off the ground. But what would be your thing for whether it's trading or something else, that they should at least give it a try and not look at the failure rate or the bad that could happen. Like why should they focus onthe best case scenario?

Teri Ijeoma 24:09

Hmm, good question. And I do have to admit, like, I've always been the person who is striving to be number one. So in high school, I was trying to be valedictorian. And then I was so upset when I was like some tenths of a point away like I was, I was third in my class instead of one and I was so pissed, you just do not know. And then in college, like I went to MIT, and I still had like a, I still got A's and B's. I had like a 4.5 GPA at MIT like so. Yes, I do have to admit like, I am smart. And I always seem to be number one. So there is a piece of it. That's like, don't-please believe I work super, super hard. This didn't just happen out of thin air. And like I've been trading 10 years so I didn't just start here. I started with losing all the money that I was making because I didn't know what I was doing. And then finally taking classes and becoming a better trader. So yes, so it took some time to get here. But to your question of like, what would I tell people to do? Honestly, I really would tell them to learn to invest. And I wouldn't stop at just, "Okay. I'm going to do a buy and hold." I would learn the skill set of actively investing. And I know some people are going to be like, "But Teri, I don't have time." I understand. That's why we said it's a skill set that you can use when you want to. "But Teri, I don't have enough money." Start small even if you start with like $500 and then learn the skill set in a simulator with fake money, at least you're practicing so that when you do have more time or have more money, you can do it well. This is one of those skill sets that when the opportunity comes you don't want to be behind the ball like trying to learn when the market fell like in March. The market fell to some great prices and now people are trying to learn but what if you had learned before and now you are ready, right?

Jamila Souffrant 26:01

Right.

Teri Ijeoma 26:02

So I do think it's a it's an important skill set. And I also think there's a big part of it that you have to learn how to protect your risk. Because somebody in here is going to say, "Teri, I tried it and I lost money," and I'm going to completely agree with them. Yes, there is a possibility that you're going to lose in investing. But that's why you got to learn how to protect your risk too.

Jamila Souffrant 26:21

Yeah, and I'm happy that you also mentioned that the hard work it took you to get to where you are, and also your mindset. I think maybe we should spend a little bit at a time here because if there's going to be one thing that holds you back, it will be a mindset thing, right? It will be if you believe this is possible for you. If you believe financial independence is possible, if you believe you're going to be a success story. You talk about going to MIT like getting have such a high GPA all these amazing like feats and you continue that kind of passion and progress throughout all areas of your life. How do you keep that up? How does one if they don't have it, because someone if they're going to be honest with themselves right now be like, "Well, I don't don't have that kind of internal motivation, but I feel like I should try to have it." How would one-someone who doesn't feel like that instill that in themselves? And then how can someone just if they are feeling like that even continue that so they can really become and be their best selves?

Teri Ijeoma 27:15

I do have to admit that part of my drive is a more spiritual drive. So when I there's there's two scriptures that I think about, one of them is like there's a part in in Colossians in the Bible, and it says, "Do your best as if working for God and not for man." And so I often think about that, like, you know, what, if God gave me this great opportunity, and I just threw it away, that would just kill me. So oftentimes, I'm just, I'm just trying to do everything I can to make sure that I like do my best for God and it and it's not for like my students. I love them and but it's like, "I'm not doing this school for you. I'm doing it for God." Even trading, like If it was me, I would kick my feet up and just chill. But I'm still striving to become better because I know that God has more for me. For me, it's very much a spiritual thing. And then I will say the one other spiritual thing that I think of is there's this one scripture, I can't remember where it is. But it says something like, "I would hate to get to heaven and God say, you were ineffective and inefficient." And I remember reading that and I was like, "Oh my gosh, like I would hate to get to have him get all excited and then God told me you know what, you are ineffective in this lifetime, and you were not efficient with what I gave you." So now that's kind of also been a driver of like, I want to be effective. If I'm gonna be here, let me not just be here for myself. Like let me be effective in moving God's mission forward and then just helping other people, right? So those are some of the things that internally drive me.

Jamila Souffrant 28:56

I love it because having a higher purpose that drives you that why, like that's outside of you like that bigger thing. And you know, the superficial stuff is fun, right? Like, oh, I will maybe want the nice car or you want to maybe prove someone wrong, that you know, those are good external factors. But when you have something so internally motivating and it's spiritual, I think that's, like, unmatched when you think like, I know so many people who are spiritual, who if they harness that with their goals, if they put that together, they'd be unstoppable. Like I often sometimes say when I see people who are like big good runners, because like I started running now, because it's hard like when I'm running my little miles I'm just like, "Oh my gosh." And I see people like are talking about they ran 5 or 10 miles. I'm like, this person should be able to do anything they want and like if you can run 5 miles, 10 miles...

Teri Ijeoma 29:44

Yeah, you got grit.

Jamila Souffrant 29:46

That's what I'm saying! I'm like how do you transfer that passion, that energy into other areas where whatever you're good at or passionate about? How do you put that towards something like your money, like your other goals you have, your education, so that you can reach your best potential?

Teri Ijeoma 30:02

Yeah. And that's like sup- like runners. I'm always jealous of you guys because you guys have some like mental just discipline, something that says, "Even though I'm tired, I'm going to keep going." And I think that piece that like one little push right there is what everybody means. That I don't want to do this, but I'm going to make myself like, I got tired, but I'm going to keep going anyway, like, My legs hurt, but I'm going to keep pushing to the finish line. You know, like that piece that grit. That's the piece you need to be successful in any business, even with trading too! Like, yeah, I might have lost on the last couple trades, but I'm going to take that next trade and that might be the one that's successful. That discipline of "Okay, this is the trading plan that Teri told me. But I'm going to do the steps like she said and not go crazy." But that kind of mental discipline is what you need to be successful in all areas of life. I totally agree.

Jamila Souffrant 30:55

Yeah, all areas, okay. So when you think about your most successful kind of students, so the people who are coming in and doing that thousand dollar per day, right? That's the goal for your students?

Teri Ijeoma 31:08

Yep.

Jamila Souffrant 31:08

What qualities are, what are the things that they're making sure they listen to that they can do? That...because I think that's interesting too. Like, as a teacher, like you can tell everyone what to do. But oh, you know, some people just don't like follow directions, or they want to kind of veer off and do their own thing. So what would you say are the qualities or the things that you're most successful students do?

Teri Ijeoma 31:26

One, they actually listen to the course. They take it and they finish it. So I know that even for myself, like I've signed up for several courses, and then never take them. So I think like, first that initiative to just start. I think it's crucial. Then the second piece of it is, the students that I see do the best are the ones who are willing to listen to everything, practice and then relisten. Like I often hear them say, I watched the videos again, I've watched it multiple times. And that second time, I I listened to it, I actually understood it a little better. So taking the initiative to own the education for themselves versus trying to feel like the teacher needs to come motivate me to learn. That key thing is also really important. Like, they're like, you know what, I didn't quite get this. Let me listen again versus sending an email, "Teri, I don't understand this." They've just got some kind of initiative, which I like. And then the other piece of it, I would say, is making sure that they're actually getting to know the stock market, because I don't have any kids. But I would equate this to being a parent. Somebody could give you parenting ideas or advice, but it's going to be different for every kid, right? So like, you may listen to them and they say, Okay, well, you should feed your kid at these three times. And then you go to your kid and they're like,"I don't wanna eat nothing," right? It's kind of the same with investing, which is, I mean, it sounds like a crazy analogy, but I can give you the best practices in investing. But depending on what the market is doing, it's a living being it changes every day. So sometimes the rule may work perfectly. Other times it may not work just right. So there's some pieces of it that are also just getting to know the market. And that helps too with being a better investor.

Jamila Souffrant 33:18

Yeah, and that adaptability again, these are what all the qualities you just mentioned, works in every area of something you're pursuing.

Teri Ijeoma 33:25

Mm hmm.

Jamila Souffrant 33:26

And or that you're trying to learn because adaptability to me is also really important. Because look at you know, the journey to financial independence which involves so many possibilities and toolkits, one being trading, one being real estate investing, you know, there's so many things you can learn, right? And do, but the path itself is not always gonna be straight, right? Who would have thought of COVID and, you know, the pandemic and certain things even in your personal life? Like all the you know, something goes wrong with your car that you weren't expecting or something throws you off, someone needs maybe money, and you have to be able to adapt and not be thrown off by those things. Maybe Yeah, it's gonna happen. It may happen, but how can you set it up so that one, you have the ability to make the best choices in that moment for yourself, but then adapt as you go?

Teri Ijeoma 34:11

Exactly. Yep.

Jamila Souffrant 34:13

Okay, so I think the last thing I want to talk about is just like what your future goals are. So I have actually, I'm so excited because in a future episode, it may be like a couple days from now, I'm not exactly sure or next week, I want to bring on some journeyers, who also became Teri's students talk about their experience with Trade and Travel. But I want to talk a little bit about what your future goals are, because I feel like you you've done so much since our last conversation so I want to put like a limit on like, what that may be. But I'm just curious to like the woman who like literally does not have to work anymore, but still doing it and helping other people create wealth in their lives like what is next for you? What are you looking forward to doing?

Teri Ijeoma 34:55

Sleep.

Jamila Souffrant 34:56

Yep! Good for you!

Teri Ijeoma 35:02

But I think the first thing is, I still want to hit that thousand students like I told you, I'm very much about goals. And so we made this goal to have 1000 students make $1,000 in a day. And so I just talked to my team and I said, "Well, we're at 300, what do we got to do to get to the rest of the way?" Like, there's probably things that we can improve for the actual student journey. So for the current students that are in the course, how do we make sure they're learning better? And then for new students, we probably need to recruit more students to come into the course. But how do we make sure that we're reaching this goal of generating a million dollars a day? Like I just feel like if we have enough students generating money from the stock market that literally can change the world. And so this is the mindset I have. So I'm like, "What do we need to do to get there?" So like, that's one-working to help more students learn how to invest and then personal life. I think I'm also like, excited to learn how to relax and enjoy my free time. So I've been working on just like time management and how do I use my work day more effectively so that I can enjoy the night without having to worry about anything? Or how do I better delegate? So I started hiring staff and now I'm trying to think through systems like okay, how do I teach this person how to use Webinar Jam? And you know, there's all these like random things that I used to do by myself, how do I delegate that? So really trying to learn how to be a good CEO, and stop being in the day to day and start being able to think more strategically? So I read like a couple articles recently, like what are the task of a CEO? Like so that's on my radar, and then one thing just further down the road, I love helping other business owners too. Like I've found a lot of joy in that like, I like having our financial network and being able to be accountability partners for each other. So I see that also being somewhere in my future, like, somewhere being kind of like mastermind for other businesses trying to become bigger and better, but for right now, like, focus on helping students with Trade and Travel and just building out this team in a better lifestyle.

Jamila Souffrant 37:17

Yeah, I think what like when I look at your like business and demo, like probably you're likein millions, right? Like you're building your business itself, not what you're trading on, personally, your business like is bringing in millions and like, your business structure. And you being able to have employees like that's what I aspire, like in my business like to be able, you know, to do. And I know like, it's crazy, because same thing with money, right? Like, because even though you're at the point where you're earning millions, you're still trying to implement some structure in your business so you're not so into it. And then I'm thinking to like imagine if you did get that part like really oiled and running, how much more you could do with your time to impact like other people. And how it's always a journey! Like just because you have the million dollar bill doesn't mean, it's all gonna be figured out right away. It's still a progressive journey. So I'm just super proud of what you're doing. I will say this, like, I think I've said it on our joint class and on the podcast before but, you know, when you introduce people, like I introduce people to my audience all the time, because I've read them on the podcast, right? But you were like, the first person that I did like a joint thing with, right? Because that's like a big like, I'm telling my audience, if I'm selling something, I know it's good. So yes, you should buy from me because I put in my stamp of Jamilla Journey to Launch on it. But to like, work with someone else and like to introduce my audience to them and say, "No, this person is legit, and what they're teaching is legit, and I trust you with them," like was a huge step for me. But I wouldn't have wanted to do that for the first time without like with anyone else, because you were so amazing like to do that with. And as you'll hear from people who went through your stuff, like, it works, it's working. And it's true. And I think it's so hard sometimes if you've been jaded or sometimes if you're a realist in the world. That it's hard to like trust things like that. Like not just from a business perspective, but just like when you hear people who are saying, "Hey, I can actually help you do this, but you do have to invest something so that your skin is in the game. You put the time and you put the money in, you can get this result." And you know, I think that's just amazing opportunity that you're giving people and I'm glad I'm able to help you spread that message to more people. So

Teri Ijeoma 39:23

Aww! Thank you so much. You gonna make me cry. I just did my makeup.

Oh, but thank you so so much. That is that is the sweetest thing anybody has ever said. Thank you so so much.

Jamila Souffrant 39:38

But you'll be hearing more from Teri and I in future things. So just make sure you're staying in tune for that. And Teri, just one more time tell people where they can follow you on social.

Teri Ijeoma 39:46

Yes. So on YouTube and we're trying to get everything under Trade and Travel ,so search that first. Tade and Travel. And then on Instagram @Imaninvestor. It looks like Imani Investor. And then I've learned recently, when people try to look up Teri, they don't know how to spell it. So it's Teri and then my last name is Ijeoma.

Jamila Souffrant 40:11

Excellent. I'm going to add all that in the episode show notes. Plus we are doing a joint class again later on in the month, depending on what you listen to this, in September. So I will link all that in the show notes. Thank you again, Teri for coming on and joining us.

Teri Ijeoma 40:24

Thank you so much. I love this.

Jamila Souffrant 40:31

Wow, I really hope you enjoyed that conversation with Teri and that you are inspired as much as I am every time I talk to her. What living your purpose, having a passion, and working because you want to, right? Like we all aspire at least I do. I know you do, too. Because you're listening to this we aspire to work because we want to, not because we have to. And it's really nice to see someone who's in that position who still Waking up, working as hard as Teri does still, right? Like girl Teri, take a vacation! Take a break. But she is so driven to fulfill her life's mission and purpose. And I love that she brings in spirituality and her relationship with God, in terms of helping to motivate her because once you have a higher power guiding you, sky is the limit. There is no limit. The sky is not even limit, right? So again, here's some links that you may want to take down. If you are convinced and just like I need to sign up for Teri's next, like go around in her course, go to JourneytoLaunch.com/Teri. If you want to join us for a free class to talk more about Trade and Travel, her program, and trading in general, so just tips you know to learn more, you can go to JourneyToLaunch.com/tradingclass. There you can sign up for the free class that we're doing together again on September 23. Oh and stay tuned because in the next episode of the podcast, I will be bringing on a roundtable of Teri's students so journeyers. So people who are journeyers, who listen to the podcast just like you, who actually took the course the last time around that we did this, and they're going to share their experience. So I can't wait for you guys to hear that episode. Stay tuned for that one.

If you want to check out the episode shownotes, that's where you can get links to anything that's mentioned, find out more about our guests, and even get a transcribed version of this episode that you can read, go to JourneytoLaunch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode. Now you can also still grab your free Journeyer Jumpstart Guide by texting, "Launch" to 33777 or go to JourneytoLaunch.com/Jumpstart.

If you want to support me and the podcast and love the free content and information that you get here, here are four ways that you can support me and the show. One, make sure you're subscribed to the podcast wherever you listen, whether that's Apple Podcasts, that purple app on your phone, your Android device, YouTube, Spotify, wherever it is that you happen to listen, just subscribe so you are not missing an episode. And if you're happening to listen to this on Apple Podcasts, rate, review, and subscribe there. I appreciate and read every single review. Number two, follow me on my social media accounts. I'm @JourneytoLaunch on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. And I love love love interacting with journeyers there. Three, support and check out the sponsors of this show. If you hear something that interests you, sponsors are the main ways we keep the podcast lights on here. So show them some love for supporting your girl. Four, and last but not least, share this episode, this podcast with a friend or family member or co-worker so that we can spread the message of Journey to Launch. Alright, that's it. Until next week, keep on journeying, Journeyers.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Jamila Souffrant 0:00

You're listening to The Journey to Launch Podcast. I'm talking taco shells, bloating, and running. What does this have to do with money? Listen to find out.

Recording 0:14

Welcome to the Journey to Launch Podcast with your host Jamila Souffrant. As a money expert who walks her talk, she helps brave journeyers like you get out of debt, save, invest and build real wealth. Join her on the Journey to Launch to financial freedom in five, four, three, two, one.

Jamila Souffrant 0:41

Hey, hey, hey journeyers! It's about that time-time for a solo episode. You know, even after three years of podcasting, I still don't really like doing these but I am committed to doing them. Also, I'm recording this from home in August. So that means my kids are here. You may hear them in the background, they may even interrupt me because yes, just what my life has been like, I'll give some quick updates. And then I will share what I thought could be good topics for this episode. So bear with me. I'm trying to just like speak and go with it. You know, I heard someone say on the podcast, and it inspired me because I feel like this is what I do. I want to show you so if you're listening to this, that you don't have to be perfect. Because I feel like I'm far from perfect when I'm recording these episodes. It's probably one of the reasons I don't like recording the solo episodes. Like if I really want to get raw with you, it's because I'm super conscious of you know, the way I speak and am I saying the right thing? And am I getting everything out the way it's supposed to be? You know, when you listen to other people, like I listen to other podcasts, sometimes I'm just like, "Wow, they delivered that so crisp and eloquent and smart. " And I'm like, I don't think I'd be able to get all those words out in the same way if I was talking, right? And what's crazy is I'm sure some of you look at me like that. I get all the time like do more solo episodes. I love the way you speak. I love the way you formulate thoughts. And it's just crazy how hard we can be on ourselves sometimes. So raising my hand here, I'm included in that. And what I've been pushing through, hence why I'm still doing these solo episodes is just "F it." Also, like not trying to stop and edit and re-record things. So really just showing that you can show up exactly how you are imperfections perfections and all, you have something important to say say it, you have something important to do, do it. You may not think it's important, but someone out there needs it. So just go ahead. Go ahead, stop judging yourself so harshly. And trust me, I'm talking to myself too.

Now, some personal updates. It's so funny last year, this time, I said I was so busy. I think I had did the Money Launch Club open launch. So I did doors open to the Money Launch Club in 2019, I believe and I remember because my Aunt was also off. So my Aunt who usually helps us with the kids, she's amazing. She usually takes off like maybe a month in the summer. And I remember last summer she took off. And then I had all these things planned. And I was so I don't want to say stress, I don't want to say stressed, but it was a lot. And I said to myself, you are slowing down in 2020. In terms of the summer, it'd be great if you don't have anything you have to do. But of course, that is not what's happening. I feel like I'm busier than ever, in this month, particularly August. And so of course, this also is the month of my Aunt is off. So fast forward. Now I'm in the kind of the same situation where I have a lot of things to do a lot of deadlines. And the kids are here, as they should be like, where are they going to go? Now my husband is home too. So it's really helpful. He's a teacher. So it's great that he has a kind of schedule where he's home. Plus, hello, we're still in the pandemic and semi quarantining, I guess, but still, at the end of the day, it's just hard to get things done and I don't have as much time to get things done. So typically, what happens is my new routine has been I've been getting up and running in the mornings. Yay to me, because I, I'll talk about this a little bit later. But I did not foresee myself running at all. I'm not a runner. I don't see myself as a runner. But apparently I'm running in the mornings. So what I've been doing is getting up early early for me, which is about 5:45, 6 o'clock and then getting out and running. And it's been great. So get back home. And then when I get home, around that, say, 8:30, my husband leaves to go run and do his workout. So we kind of switch back and forth. And then I have the kids and then he usually gets back mid day. So I don't really start working or have time to do Journey to Launch stuff until the afternoon, and even so, it's only a few hours if I'm lucky. But it's just a lot to cram in and then if I hear them crying or needing something, it's just staying focused and in the groove can be tough. So here I am, again, with lots of deadlines in August, but I'm getting it done. And I must say that it's been a productive year so far for me. I understand that this pandemic, and COVID has run our world and country crazy. And it's caused a lot of pain and heartache for people and I get it you so much uncertainty now. And I think also what's happening, which includes me in this group, is that it's allowed me time to refocus and recenter. Like, it's almost like the whole world stopped and slowed down. And so with that, I feel like I've gotten actually more opportunities in this season. I feel like my mom said this to me. I think I shared this on the podcast. She was like, "Every two years, something amazing like happens, like it's like a real pivotal point in your life." And so she said that 2020 would be that for me. And I can say that I feel like things are lining up to be that way. I mean, I'm so grateful. That Journey to Launch actually last year, 2019, I believe I shared that gross income for Journey to Launch was about like 80 something thousand dollars. And I'm happy and proud to say that we're not done with the year yet. It's August and we passed that number already. Now I will go more into detail about Journey to Launch and business stuff and money. I definitely I promise I will do a podcast episode on that later on this year. But it's just been eye opening the the opportunities and the experiences and some of them I can't really share because there's no contract signed and it's still up in the air. But trust me, you'll be the first to know. Actually, if you want to be the first to know, you need to sign up to my newsletter list or follow me on social media newsletters. The best way you can go to JourneytoLaunch.com/join. I think that's just like the quickest way to get on my list without getting an opt in-you just like get on it. But as soon as I can share some of the stuff that are bubbling behind the scenes, I will.

Now with that, I do want to share what I want to talk about this episode. There are three topics- now they're going to seem weird, maybe. But here's what I've been kind of playing around with in my head. So what do taco shells, bloating and running all have in common? Money! No, they really don't have money in common but because of the way my brain thinks it's so weird, I can relate everything back to money and personal development. These are three topics that I kind of want to explore more with you. And the first one being taco shells-Trader Joe taco shells to be exact. Now what do I mean? Now, if you are a Trader Joe's fan like me, I'm a big huge fan of Trader Joe's, like legit. If there was a Trader Joe's in my neighborhood, once I reach my financial independence number, and "retire", you may find me working at Trader Joe's, especially if it was in my neighborhood. Unfortunately, it's not so I have to travel. You know a little bit to get there but I love going to Trader Joe's. Now Trader Joe's has these corn, these hard corn taco shells and I would buy them all the time because I love tacos. And I remember the box on the box, the taco shell box had directions on how to heat it up in the oven. And I remember following those directions to heat up the taco shells. And from what I remember the first time that I was like doing this a couple years ago, when I started buying them, I think it was something like, put it in at 425, like, let your oven heat up to 425 and put the taco shells in for like three minutes. And so I would follow the instructions on the taco shell box, and I would put them in the oven. And by the time I followed the directions and took them out in two or three minutes, most of the time they would be burned. And I'd be like, "Well, what the heck." But the direction said that. So I'm like, "Well, maybe it's me. Maybe I'm not timing things properly." Even though I did have the timer on I'm like, "Maybe my oven is just powerful" let me put it on two minutes and I would adjust it and it would work better. But I say all this to say that there were specific instructions on how to heat up these damn taco shells. And when I followed them, they would come out half wrong most of the time. Then what I noticed was I went back, so I can't remember what happened. But maybe I took a break from taco shells, who knows. And I went back, I bought the taco shells more recently. And I noticed something interesting. The directions for the same taco shells, I doubt the ingredients changed at all. They were different on the box. And on the box, I believe it says something like and I have to like get the picture. Maybe I'll post this in the episode show notes. But the new box said something like heat at 300 degrees for a longer time. I think it was like seven minutes. And I followed those directions that time and the taco shells came out perfectly. And I was just like, "Wow, so the first few times I was doing it trying to follow directions on the original box. They were messing up but I said nope, that's the way it says it should be done. This needs to work the way the direction say."Although I wasn't getting the same results, then while I guess I don't know if they were getting complaints, or they also realized that the directions were not correct. And they updated it. And then so when I tried the new way, it worked. And I can't help but think this is the same thing that happens with life and money. Because what you'll hear from people, right are things that work for them, right? I did this. I budgeted this way. I use this budgeting app. I listened to this podcast. I took this course. Or you can maybe look at things that just in their life that happen so maybe, you know, I have a husband, I have kids I have... So there's all these ingredients, right? There's these things and prescriptions or these steps people take. And if you're listening to this podcast, you're probably one of those people that you like hearing that stuff, right? It's inspiration, it gives you ideas, but if you follow someone else’s path to the tee, you most likely won't get the same exact results. Now, that's not saying that there aren't just like frameworks that are just like basic level, you should do this, right? Like you should spend less than you earn, you should invest, right? But in those things, in those specific topics, investing, saving lifestyle, it's going to be different. And so maybe you've tried something, and you're just like, why isn't this working for me? It's works for everyone else, you know, it seems like it works for everyone else. Or maybe internally, you don't feel good about something and I'm not talking about not feeling good about something because it's like, uncomfortable for a little bit because I think being uncomfortable and stretching yourself is important, like not everything is going to feel like a cakewalk. But I'm talking about where you just legit feel like something is off here. Then you need to give yourself permission to make changes as necessary. You don't need someone else to come out and say, "Hey, oh, by the way, do it this way, instead." I want you to develop your own guidance system. And yes, it will take trying things out, right? So in the case of the taco shell box, it did take me trying a couple times to realize this is not working. And then I started to make my own adjustments. But imagine if I said, "Well, the taco box says this, and I have to follow this." And I'm doing it and the tacos keep coming out wrong, the taco shells keep coming out wrong. And if it wasn't for me adjusting on my own, then I'd just be in this constant battle of trying to follow something that's not working. And how crazy is it that sometimes the validation was the validation from me, right? That's why I'm just like, you're probably thinking, "Jamila, why are you remembering about this damn taco shell box?" But I remember following the directions and it coming up wrong and me being like, "What the hell is going on?" So to see the updated directions felt like big validation. And so sometimes, yes, you want to see validation from others that this new plan that you have may work and what I'm trying to tell you right now is don't wait for the validation from anybody else. The validation that it works is in your results. It's not necessarily the results of like feeling good and it being easy, but your results on making progress to your goals. So that was my first topic get yeah, taco shells and money and figuring out your own ingredients and your own path and directions to reaching financial independence and freedom. I'll give you a lot of tips. I'll introduce you to a lot of people that hopefully if you do end up following them or taking their stuff, of course, you also enjoy, right? But I hope what I am doing is allowing you to decipher what works for you, allowing you to decide that or try right? If you're getting introduced to different things, try something and try it to your best ability but if you feel like it's not working, if it's legit not working, you try something else. There is no one size or one way fits all. So that was my thought process on taco shells and money and life.

Okay, the second thing, bloating. Now you're really like, "Jamila, you're taking it too far." What does bloating and I mean bloating like women. I mean, I'm a woman and I have a lot of girls that are friends. So I'm assuming that most women experienced this, especially moms. Again, I'm just like, after having a baby, my whole stomach is just another-it looks totally different and acts totally different. And so bloating. What does bloating have to do with money and financial goals? Well, I'll tell you. So I was finishing- I was about to finish my thought. I was saying I'm maybe men too that you experienced this, but maybe because my husband never bloats and has the same abs that he's had since I met him at 19, I'm like, "Whatever, man, you guys don't count" But bloating and money. What the hell does that have to do with each other? Now, I have been on my fitness journey, which I'm super excited about. I feel like I'm finally getting back into the groove of things of being healthier especially since having my three kids. And one thing that has never gone away, even before I had my kids, like I had a bloating issue meaning like I eat the wrong thing or eat anything and I just bloat. It's like eat a banana I bloat. Eat a cracker I bloat up, like it was just always annoying. And recently as I've been trying to eat healthier and run and do all these things, the bloating is still happening. Now it's not as much as before, because I've cut out some things that I know are triggers, but I'm like, I'm still gonna have pizza, still gonna have this enchilada, so the bloating you just gonna have to happen. But what has been happening this because I've been doing the work outside of the bloating so outside of my body just doing what it wants. I've been putting in work. Now I've been running in the mornings, I've been trying to limit carbs and junk. And so when I'm not bloating, I'm like, "wow." You know that first time, ladies when you get up in the morning and you look at yourself and you're just like, "Okay, Can we keep this body for the whole day?" But then of course, like, you know, life happens, you start eating and then do I thought throughout the day you bloat. And so I thought to myself, if I just looked at myself, at the bloating stage at the biggest bloating stage of the day, it would look like I'm making no progress in terms of physically how I look, or how I want to look. But knowing just knowing that I'm putting the work in knowing that, you know, I've been eating better. I've been running, doing my squats, I know beneath the bloat, that the work is being done. And so part of this how it relates to money and financial goals, is that there are going to be some bloat in your budget, in your life like meaning there are going to be things that throw you off that you can't prevent. Look at the pandemic, look at all the things that are outside of our control, right? Like something happens to your car or house or someone you know that you care about needs money and you want to help them there and you didn't plan for that but you want to be able to pay for it or handle that expense, right? There's going to be things that you, that will throw or seemingly throw you off of track. But you're not off track. It's momentarily it's almost like a it's a mirage is that what I'm trying to say mirage? You know, in the desert, when you see things, it's not real. It's not real. It's part of it, right? Like it is a real thing that's happening. But what I'm trying to say is, what's happening is not the natural state when things go back to normal, what they would be. Your hard work or your focus the 95% of the things that you're doing the work you're putting in, you know, that extra money that you're saving the $5-10 dollars that you're able to squeeze out and put towards debt, even though it doesn't seem like a lot, because you're looking at that damn debt and you're like, "It feels like a big bloat belly." Trust me underneath that bloat, there are changes happening. There are. You have to trust the process. You have to put in the work, whatever work means for you. Again, if you go back to my taco shells example, what I need to do to get to my financial goals are going to be different maybe then you based on my strengths and my interests and what I'm willing to do and give up and all those things. For you, it may be something totally different, right? And so you need to decide that despite all the bloat and things that don't look as nice, that because you're putting the work in, because your input is solid, that it doesn't matter sometimes that the output is not what you want. You got to trust that beneath the bloat, changes are happening. And honestly, that does take a bit of faith. Because it's almost like you have to, you have to see not using your eyes. You have to see using your intuition and trust that the behind the scenes stuff is working. I heard this thing before that you know, why does a farmer plant anything? Because they have to put the seed down and then the seed has to grow and it can take some time but they just know or hope that the plant or vegetable will bloom. And they know that from experience most likely or watching someone else do it. And so, really, but if we only wanted to assure ourselves that the plant, the tree, the vegetable will always bloom like and we had the exact timeframe, then why would anyone plant anything? Because what you're starting with is a seed that you have to bury in the ground. And you don't see any results for a while. And sometimes, I'm sure there are plants, I can't name any right now, if you have plants, you know about this stuff, that it may seem like nothing is happening for a long time. But underneath the soil, magic is happening. And you don't see it right away. And so many of us give up before we see the results we want right? And so I know I was stuck in that kind of pattern, especially after having my kids like in the middle of having them where I would maybe say "Okay, I'm going to like eat healthier." And then I would try to eat healthier or try to be more active and then I'll just like look at myself and I'd be like, "It's been a week like there's nothing happening." And then I kind of go back to my old ways of not caring as much where there was things happening, I just couldn't see it. I was letting my eyes dictate how I felt about myself, I was letting like the external appearance dictate how my progress went. And what I should have been paying attention to and what I am paying attention more to is who I am becoming, how I feel internally. So regardless of the bloat, even though that feels like crap a lot of the times, is that I feel better generally I feel better. It doesn't even matter. Honestly, of course, I want to get back as much as I can. You know, I'm not gonna lie here, some flat abs, God willing, I don't know if that's ever gonna happen. But what I care more about is that I have more energy. I feel better in my clothes. I just feel like I'm getting back to the older me pre- kids where, like, I had that confidence, and I wasn't in my best shape. And so even though right now I'm not technically my best shape, I doesn't matter because I'm so proud of the work I'm putting in. Of getting up early in the morning. So it's like, you know what, I don't care when I do look at myself and it's bloat. I'm just like, "Whatever" that I'm not even paying attention to you right now, because I'm putting that work in and I know it's happening. And that's how I want you to feel about your financial journey, about your money journey. This is again, a marathon, not a sprint. You're going to be doing little and small things. And you might think, "It's not working. What's the point?" But it is working. Don't give up before you see it or don't let a random bloat or random bad day, mess up all the hard work. And by the way, there is no mess up because even if you fall off, come on now like even though I'm talking about eating healthier and following through, I still again, I'm if I want a slice of pizza, I'm going to have a slice of pizza. I want an enchilada I'm going to eat that. So it's not that everything is going to be salads and saving as much as possible ever, right? It's really more about if you see yourself slipping up or if you're indulging, acknowledging that, that it's part of the journey and getting back on it. Not being too hard on yourself about that, because no one gets it perfect all the time. And if you do, then I give it up to you. But most people I know including myself, there's a balanced approach to how you're going to do this. And the last thing you want to do is let your eyes or the current situation deter you from your future situation. It may not be what you currently want, but you have to trust the process. You have to trust that you're planting the seeds and no matter what it seems like, no matter what external forces are happening, that internally, you are doing the work. That you are putting in what needs to be done to get to your goals. So that's what bloating has to do with money and goal setting.

Last but definitely not least, I want to share my running story. So you if you listen to this podcast, you may have gotten the gist of this because I kind of talked about this a little bit about how fit I was before I had kids. And I mean, I was really fit. I used to do CrossFit-well I was a gymnast. So first of all, let's go back a little bit. I was a gymnast. And I would mean, I wasn't that good. I like got up to level seven. So for those of you who know the gymnast world, I got to level seven. And it was cool, right? And I was like in high school when that happened. And I would have continued I definitely would have have not made a college team. Like, but I would have continued if I went to a college that had gymnastics, but I just didn't and I never continued. But I was always very athletic and adventurous. And so after college, you know I did work out cuz my husband is very athletic. He used to play basketball, he still plays but he was always working out. So I was you know, continuing working out and in my 20s and then right before I really started to have kids, I took up CrossFit which I absolutely love because I was able to merge the gymnastics with the intensity. So things like handstand push ups and handstand walks. Like I loved all those things because I used to do those in gymnastics. Then even with my first son, I literally worked out and did CrossFit with him like till a week before I gave birth. And then I developed something called Diastasis Recti, which is the separation of the abs. So this happened after my first child. And it really discouraged me because I was just like I did all that work to be fit like throughout my whole pregnancy and I feel like for what? Like I still kind of now with the separation of the abs, it makes your stomach appear a little poochy. You know, especially as I previously stated I have bloating. Um so very round stomach which again like when you see like all these snap backs from celebrities and you know, people you're just like, "Okay, my stomach looks nothing like that." And I know like in pictures, if you don't like know me, if you see me in pictures, like it looks fine, and trust me. I'm not bashing myself. I know I look fine, especially for having three kids. But just comparing to who I was before, and how I look before it was a big shock after having my first child, and I knew I wanted more kids. So I kind of made like a conscious effort. Like I said to myself, "I am not going to go that hard, like in terms of like fitness, while pregnant and breastfeeding." Like, I will get back into the swing of things after I'm done having kids. And so I said to myself, "I'm giving myself two years per kid," this was like, in my head, I'm, like, you know, just rounding up basically, like, I'm going to be pregnant and breastfeed. So I'll give each kid about two years each for that, and then I'll be ready after my last kid. I'm pretty sure Blake, my daughter, is my last kid like seriously, I do not want any more. And so I said to myself, "Okay, you have no excuses, time to get back in shape."

So at the beginning of 2020, I joined the gym, because I just was not feeling like myself, especially after having Blake, like I was not fit at all. So going from the friend, the annoying friend of all my friends that would be like, "I'm getting up going to CrossFit at 5am" you know, before my two hour commute to where, like, I'm not even working out at all was crazy. And I just I just didn't I had no energy, I just I didn't feel like myself, I felt like a stranger in my own body. And so I wanted to do something different. So I had a commitment in 2020 that I was going to get back into the swing of things, back into the gym. And then, that I was also going to take the time I needed to heal, as much as I could, Diastis Recti. So when you have the Diastis Recti, the the fast and impactful movements are not going to help, right? So CrossFit definitely out the question with this. It's really the align movements like the smaller core movements. It's about stretchin. About all the things that I kind of find boring, quite honestly, that I needed to do. But I said to myself, "It's 2020 I'm going to do this." So I joined in the gym because I did want a mix of, you know, classes because I know myself I need to be -I love group settings. I love being motivated by other people around me. If it's really just me, I'm not as motivated. And so it was really helpful that I could join the gym. So joined the gym 2020 and with going to the gym, I baked it into my schedule, I was in a groove, feeling really good. And then the pandemic happened, and so the gyms closed and so for a little bit, I wasn't really doing anything again. I tried to do some at home stuff and I'm just like, just not feeling it. Then my husband, he started running because we have like this trail by our house and if you follow me on Jamila Souffrant, my Instagram, that Instagram I shared the trail I share me running. So when I first started running like he started running and he you know said to me, "Why don't you come with me?" And I'm just like, "Why do people run? Like this is pointless but I'll go with you." And I went out with him and it was just like such a beautiful scenic route, where I was so amazed like that this was so close to me like meaning where we currently live. Like we live further in Brooklyn. And I would personally love to live closer to the city, but it's so expensive. So when we bought our house, we move further into Brooklyn.

And I'm always kind of like, "Dag, I wish we live by appear like by Dumbo Park", you know, by an area where you know, that was just like, built up to by the water. And so to find out that there is a water, like way not too far from me that we can drive five minutes to was amazing. I'm like, "How come? Why did it take me like 15 years to find this out?" So I would go with him. But I would begrudgingly run. Like, literally, I'd be like, "I'm only gonna run for 10 minutes because you're lucky I'm here." Or I'd say to him, my husband is so good at this. Like he allows me to do whatever like he's like Buddha. Like he's just like, he'll take on whatever energy you give him. So I would be like, "I don't think I'm gonna run today. I'm just gonna walk." He'd be like, "Okay," and then I'm like, "Wait a second. No, I'm gonna run it" and he's like, "okay." So I started to slowly, like pick up running. And at first, I would run I don't even think it was a mile. It was a mile, I started to run. And let me tell you, I thought I was gonna die running those miles I would start running and the first three minutes, I'm not lying to you, I'd be out of breath. I'd be like, "why am I doing this? This is so hard. How am I going to make it like to the final mile?" And I remember starting that way and hating it. And so did that for weeks and weeks only said I was gonna run one mile and then I'm gonna walk the rest of the way because I deserved it. So I did that. And then slowly because I know me, I started to push myself I said, "Okay, maybe not just that one mile. Maybe just go a few steps further" and I started to do that. And so now fast forward a bit. I am legit running. I'm so proud of myself. Drumroll, everybody.

Three miles, which is such a huge deal for me. Because I didn't even know, I never even imagined I'd be running three miles. I thought I was going to die at the one mile mark. But what I've learned since running is that the reason why I felt that way was one, I was out of shape, and I had to build my endurance. But I was setting my sights only on one mile. And so when I was approaching that one mile mark, I was done. I was not running anymore. But once I started to set my reference point and my goal further, I was able to reach that because my goal point was further. I was prepared to stop at the one mile mark, and like, lay out on the ground. But once I said,"Nope, you're gonna stop at that 1.3 mile mark," or whatever it was, that allowed me to pass that one mile mark, and have my sights on the next thing. And so I slowly started doing it. And that's literally how I like started to run more than one mile that I thought I'd never run and it's so crazy because even running three miles now, it feels the same way as I, when I run one mile. It's not that it's necessarily easier. Like it's so hard for me. But because I've done it before, I'm like, "You got this." And I in my head right now, I'm like, there's no way I can run four or five miles consistently. But because I've already accomplished this going from one to three miles, it's possible, right? So I'm not like, I'm not professing to be like a huge runner here. But I've learned so much from running over the past few months. And I just want to share some lessons actually share this on my Jamila Souffrant, Instagram, post one of my posts about running lessons from a non runner.

So one of the things that I started to do to help me and this to me has a lot to do with goal setting and money. I can always relate things back to goal setting and money when it comes to like talking about a topic, but I was started to focus on the quality and the distance of the run, not the speed. So for me what that meant was don't worry about like how fast you're going per mile that will come. Worry about how you feel because I would try to start out running kind of like faster. Because you know, you see other people running faster. And I'm just like, "Alright, I can run a little faster." I'm like, okay, no, no, we're not running for speed. We're running for distance and quality of the run. Because when I started out too fast, I would get too tired. And then I'm just like, "Oh, no, this doesn't feel good." But when I started out slower, and had a consistent pace, it felt better. And so that helped me go further and enjoy the run as much as you can enjoy running a bit more. And it makes me think about like, when you when you talk about like reaching financial independence, if you're going for the quality and the distance versus the speed, I think that matters a lot more. Because a lot of times, when you're focused just on how fast you can pay off debt and save gazillions of dollars or even save $10,000 right? If you enjoy it, fine. That means the quality of the journey is there and it's great, but if you are miserable, if you are just focusing and on sacrificing, giving things up and not enjoying it, that is not a run I'd like to do, I want to enjoy it. So sometimes in the beginning, it may be giving up the speed to get to your goal. But you'll get there, you'll get there. And the crazy thing about it is the speed will pick up naturally. Because even though I'm not focused on speed right now, when I'm running, I'm getting faster. I'm focused more on the quality. And so I think that has a lot to do with our financial journeys and our life journeys. Because if you're not focusing on how fast you get there, but the quality, you'll get to where you want to go, and you'll enjoy it, and plus the speed will pick up. You'll get there faster. Okay, the other thing I learned was I was afraid to push myself with running. You know, I know me I have a very distinct I don't know if it's distinct. It's not that distinct. I have a personality where if I say I'm going to do something, I'm going to do it. And there were times that I would run and know I could do more, but I stopped myself, because I was like,"If I go further, that means I'm always gonna have to go that further, or that you know much further" and I wasn't prepared to make that commitment. You know, I said to myself, "if I run..." when I was running that mile, I said to myself, "you know, Jamila, you can run probably a little bit longer." And I said, "But if you run longer, you're always gonna have to run longer." And who wants to do that, right? And it was almost like I was scared of my own potential. And once I started to say to myself, I let myself off the hook, I said, "Jamila, if you run further this one time, it doesn't mean anything. You don't have to do it all the time. You don't even have to do it again." Don't focus on the forever of the situation, because sometimes we're not ready to make that commitment, even when it comes to maybe making a commitment about money, right, or saving or investing or something, right? It's like a commitment that maybe will need you to continue and have habits form around it. And maybe you don't feel like you're ready for that. But what I found is that when I don't focus on the ongoing habit, just focus on that one little thing that one day that allows me to let myself off the hook. Go all out, go for it. And then guess what? After I'm done, I can decide if I'm going to keep doing it. And if you're like me, you will naturally want to keep going, right? Or maybe yes, one day is like I ran that 1.5 miles. I'm not running that right now. Just don't feel it. That's fine, too. But naturally, you will want to keep going. And so that to me, is what pushes me further. It's not to to commit long term like you know, I'm not committing right now to be like a four or five, six marathon mile runner. I'm not doing that. But it may get there one day, but I'm not committing to that. And I say, and I think sometimes for us on this life, journey, financial journey, you'll have things you want to do but you're afraid to declare them because you're afraid you might actually fail or or not keep up and my thing is just just start. Just take it one day at a time, $1 at a time. And see where that leads. Get the momentum going.

Okay, next thing I learned about running and money. For me at least, my brain wants to stop before my body does. So, because I've already ran that distance sometimes as I'm ready, like within that mile or running, I'm wanting to like give up mentally, I'm like, "I'm tired, like, I don't want to run anymore", but it's like your body can do this. You've done this before. And so I'm relying on muscle memory at this point to carry me through because if I listen to the hater inside of me, that telling me and you know, you know, quite honestly, we all have that kind of person in our head, right? Like the "Hater," but they're really just trying to protect you, right? Like, they want to make sure you're safe. So sometimes when you want to take risk and do things that you're not comfortable with, they're going to say, "Wait, here are all the reasons why you shouldn't." They're going to present you with the alternative to keep you safe.

But especially if you push yourself before or that's why examples having examples are helpful, if you see someone else's He was able to do it who has a similar situation or similar qualities to you and makes you feel like, "I can do this too." So, don't always listen to your brain. Yes, you need to make sure you're safe, especially when it comes to working out and running. And, but really, your brain is just trying to protect you most of the time. And it won't allow you a lot of the time to fulfill your full potential unless you push back and you just like, "Alright I'm not gonna listen to you right now. I'm just gonna follow what I instinctively know I can do. And then also what I've done before." So that's another thing I've learned.

The last thing I'm going to share about running that I feel like totally relates to money and financial goals in life is just start, just start. A few months ago, I could have never thought like I'd be running this far. I have no clue where I'm going to be in a few months. I might not even continue running after you know, the winter this pandemic is over. I don't know. I'm taking it one day at a time. But I'm so proud of the commitment that I've made to get up early you know in the morning and to run my own race. And so just starting for you may look like a bunch of things, whether it's fitness or money, or career or something new that you're doing. Just start! You maybe want to keep the goal to yourself for a bit, right? Some people are motivated by others. And some meaning like if you tell someone your goal and then now they're like saying to you, "Aright, did you do it?" That helps you. Some people are not as motivated in that way. They like to keep things on the wraps a little bit until they know for sure they want to do something because they don't want to seem like a flake, whatever it is, that works for you. However it is that it works. Just start, just start. I feel that if you are listening to this podcast, you have the potential to do anything you want in life because you're listening. You're starting. You might not think this is a start, right? It's just a podcast, Jamila. If you're on this podcast the whole time, especially with me talking about tacos and bloating and you got this and you've gotten something from those analogies. Like, I feel like you are at the level where you can benefit from anything. And so I'm always amazed at how great people are in other areas of their life. So when I see people were running, or working out or or great in other areas like other than money, I'm just like, "If you applied that to money, you would frickin you'd reach any goal you set in however long of a term it took you, right?" Like that same greatness when I think of how people can run 10 miles marathons. I'm like, you becoming a millionaire or creating a career or a company or becoming entrepreneur should be a cakewalk. Because to me, running is harder. But that is my little wrap up. I know, hopefully, it wasn't too all over the place. I wanted to just kind of share my thoughts and a little update about what's been going on. Again, if you enjoyed this episode, let me know because once you give me the encouragement, then I'll do some more episodes. I'll do some more solo episodes. But what I hope you most get from this is that one-taco shells, you create your own directions. You can you can source other help and tips and tools, but ultimately, write your own damn directions on your own box. One. Two, don't let bloating stop you. Don't let what your eyes see discount what's going on beneath the surface, beneath what's so visible, but those are the biggest changes, body and money. And three, the running. I mean, I had so many takeaways from running. But my biggest one for you right now is just start and don't be too hard on yourself. Set that goal. Set it further than you think you can do, and just work one day at a time towards it.

All right, that's all I have for this episode. I hope you enjoyed it.

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Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Jamila Souffrant 0:00

You're listening to the Journey to Launch Podcast How to Coast to FI: The Slow, Intentional and Balanced Approach to Reaching Financial Independence.

Recording 0:14

Welcome to the Journey to Launch Podcast with your host Jamila Souffrant. As a money expert who walks her talk, she helps brave journeyers like you get out of debt, save, invest, and build real wealth. Join her on the Journey to Launch to Financial Freedom in five, four, three, two, one.

Jamila Souffrant 0:41

Hey, hey, hey journeyers! Welcome Welcome to the journey to launch podcast. Every week, every Wednesday I drop a brand new episode. And as I am always excited, I'm really excited to bring to you this content. Now you know, I'm always thinking about you-how I can make the concept of financial independence and freedom more accessible to everyone. This moon goal, this moon goal, but I call it the big goal that we want to accomplish. Because if you're listening to this podcast, that's probably what you want to do, right? Never have to work again, ever a day in your life have enough money saved and invested. But really, it's about choosing what you want to do for work, right? Who does not want that? And then when you think about how much money you need to reach that goal, it can be overwhelming. So I always try with the content with my guests to break it down in a way where you can say, Aha, there it is, I can do it. You know, this is achievable. I can do this. And so when I saw what this week's guest, what she was about what she was writing about online, through her blog, thefioneers.com, I was really excited. Because she was talking about a concept of reaching financial independence, that one I'm actually doing myself. And I don't call it the same name, but I love how she has coined the term Coast FI. So how do you coast to financial independence? How do you take a slow, intentional path to financial independence? So maybe it's not that you reach it in five years, and you're doing all the sacrifices and all the things. If you want to do that, that's fine. But what about a more balanced approach to reaching this big goal? What if you can put it on autopilot to where you are designing a life, enjoying your life right now, whether that means taking the vacation, buying things, but also setting up yourself to live a financially independent life in the future. So Jessica from the Fioneers we're going to talk all about how to Coast to FI, all the concepts. I'm really excited for you to listen in tune into that.

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Hey Journeyers! Okay back with what I always say for every- I always sound like a broken record Jessica every time- because I'm so excited to speak to my guests and then I always say back with another special interview that you'll love when I think you will love this guys. Because- I was made aware of Jessica and her amazing blog The Fioneers like through Twitter, I'm like, like I just watch on Twitter because it's hard for me to like catch and keep up with all the content. But what really drew my attention to your work, Jessica with the fioneers is that I love the way you break down the actual journey to financial independence because I find that it's so similar to what I went through and what I'm going through. And then I think having other people understand it and hear it from you will be amazing. So I'm really glad that you're here. So welcome, Jessica.

Jessica of The Fioneers 4:16

Awesome. Thank you so much for having me.

Jamila Souffrant 4:18

So one of the things that I first noticed or really drew me to be like, "I need to get Jessica on the podcast" is this concept of Coast FI. And we're going to get to all of that Coast FI because people are like, "Okay, what does that mean?" Like, I've heard of maybe fat FIRE and lean FIRE which by the way, for anyone new that is not really understanding the acronyms we're throwing out. FIRE stands for financial independence, retire early. And you had this post and you have content around this thing called Coast FI. And I never seen it said in the way you said it. And I realized that that's exactly what I'm doing. And what I've done, and I was like, people need to hear this. So can you describe what Coast Fire or FI means?

Jessica of The Fioneers 5:02

Absolutely. So for me, I would say that Coast FI is , right? It's another one of the many acronyms but I think FIRE doesn't necessarily, like the general concept doesn't always align with the things that people are doing or the ways that they want to live their life. And so there were many things about regular FI that just didn't work for me. And so when I learned about this topic called Coast FI, basically it means that you have enough saved for retirement. So you have enough saved in your retirement accounts that if you don't touch it for the next however many years until a traditional retirement age, it will grow to provide you with a comfortable traditional retirement. So there's a lot of assumptions that sort of go into the number right it is based on, you know, expected market returns the time window, and what you have is really the most Important, and then what your expenses are and what you expect them to be over time. But the great thing about cost by is actually, if you get there, right, if you get to the point where you have enough in your accounts that you wouldn't need to touch them, it means you could decide to only cover your actual costs of living. So you could take a step back, and you would be able to work part time like I'm doing. You might be able to start your own business like you're doing or decide to find a job that might pay less that you enjoy more. There's really endless options for people who decide to say, let me use this financial freedom that I've gained already to build the life that I love right now.

Jamila Souffrant 6:46

Yes, I love that. And I'd like to, you know, maybe just put it in numbers and these are not going to be accurate because I'm just like throwing them out. Just want to give someone an idea what it means. So for example, let's just say you are 30 years old. And you have saved up $200,000 in your investment accounts. And you're saying to yourself, "Okay, if I don't touch that money, or I don't put any more money towards your retirement account." And it just sits at $200,000, and you're 30 years old, and you just let it compound over time with the market returns. So that's with, you know, the good market returns, bad market returns, but your traditional retirement is at 65, let's say. So over the next 35 years, that $200,000 without you putting any more money into it, let's just say, I'm just throwing that number out grows to $800,000 or a million. And I don't know if the numbers right or work on that, it would depend on the return. But that's the concept that Jessica is talking about, where it's powerful because that's what happened for me and allowed me to take this risk of quitting my job because I realized that we had built our retirement accounts and investment accounts to a point where we didn't have to invest in them anymore and we would be okay by the time you hit traditional retirement. So that meant right now I could focus on living life and enjoying life the way you know, that fit what I wanted to do. So I think it's important to like, think about it that way, because so many people will hear about the fire movement like I did. And it feels like all or nothing thing, like, you know, you got to like, do it like for the next 10 years, save more than half your income. And, you know, it's not until you reach early retirement like this early age and you're, you're sacrificed so much that you can enjoy it. But it's also like, what's your coast number? Like, if you can figure that out to where if you never had to invest again, you'll be okay, then you only have to worry about covering your current expenses. So I think that's great.

Jessica of The Fioneers 8:38

Absolutely. I actually did just did the math.

Jamila Souffrant 8:41

Okay, good

Jessica of The Fioneers 8:42

While you were talking there, and so if someone is 30, and they spend $35,000 a year, their Coast FI number would be $181,000, which is actually pretty low in the grand scheme of things right? It would grow to be about 2 million at retirement age actually, if they had 181, saved right now with a 5% inflation adjusted growth rate and an expected 3.5%, safe withdrawal rate. So it's actually a lot higher than the numbers that you were throwing out. It's really surprising.

Jamila Souffrant 9:17

Yeah. And don't worry, if this is the first time you're hearing about withdrawal rates, or neither, I'm going to link some of Jessica's blog post. So think of this as like your intro, if it's all new. And then you can do your reading and research and then you'll come back and listen, and then it will all make more sense. But I think it's interesting. Maybe we should just define a little the whole 25 times rule and withdrawal rate, which I've talked about before on this podcast, but I feel like it's okay to keep talking about it. Because sometimes like, the more you hear about it, the better it is. So can you just explain the withdrawal rate concept and then the 25 or whatever times concept that we typically hear or talk about in the FIRE community?

Jessica of The Fioneers 9:53

Sure. So there's a famous study, the Trinity study, which basically has said that for people with a 30 year retirement, that they could plan to withdraw about 4% of their assets each year without depleting them. And without getting down to zero or running out of money before. It's not it's kind of morbid, but before they die, I guess. So, if you do the inverse of that, that is basically 25 times your annual expenses is what you need to have saved. Right? So 100% divided by four right is 25. And so that's where that 25 times your income comes from, right? Because if you have that saved, then 4% is one year of your expenses, and then it won't deplete it because you're expecting there to be continued market growth.

Jamila Souffrant 10:51

Right. Great, great.

Jessica of The Fioneers 10:53

And for me, I talked about a 3.5% just because I feel like a lot of people who plan to retire early have more than a 30 year time window. So for me, I feel much more comfortable thinking like, "Oh, I would do a 3.5% safe withdrawal rate" just because I think in some ways I'm a little risk averse, right? And that just makes it a little bit safer and means you need a little bit more money to be able to call yourself FI or decide to retire early.

Jamila Souffrant 11:23

Right? And I like that you said that, because I know some of it too is just like it depends on your risk tolerance. And some people they don't want to save just 25 times what they think they're going to spend they're like, "I'm gonna save 30 times or you know of what I think I'm going to spend or I'm going to withdraw less on my portfolio so I feel like it can withstand market fluctuations and things happening like you know? Crazy things happening like they are now in terms of just the market." So I think this concept is great right? And I don't so even though we use the number 30 years old and that was I feel like for 30 year old to have that much like especially with the state of things now with you know, student loan debt and and just like life and inflationm it's it may be hard for some people to grasp that. If they're just finding out about this movement and about Jouney to Launch, I want to make sure that this what we're saying is, you know, accessible and not only accessible, even if it's maybe not at the moment that you're listening to this, that I'm taking into consideration the people that have so much more like on their plate that you're dealing with that they weren't able to accumulate that much. But I think the cool thing is that if you're listening to this, no matter what age though, you can start the process. So even if starting now and learning now and getting everything together, and it takes you 10 years to reach you know your Coast FI number and it's at 40-45 that you do that, that puts you in a better position to have more options to do more. So no matter like what age or how much you have right now, just knowing about this stuff, I think can be life changing because it was for me.

Jessica of The Fioneers 12:48

And Jamila I actually just put an age of 40 into the calculator, which I will totally share with you so you can share with your audience in the Show Notes. For someone who is 40 who wants to retire at 65, and their annual expenses are 35,000, they need less than $300,000 to reach their Coast FI number.

Jamila Souffrant 13:08

So they would have to have less than $300k at the-at 40 years old.

Jessica of The Fioneers 13:12

At 40 years old. So like 295, at 40 years old to be considered Coast FI, which is much lower than what what one would expect, at least for me much lower than what I would expect. And I often think about Coast FI as you know, like Coast FI doesn't necessarily mean that I'm going to scale back and only cover my expenses, right? I could do that. But it basically means now any money that I save, is no longer money that I'm saving for retirement. It's money that I'm saving for early retirement, and like more freedom now.

Jamila Souffrant 13:49

Right. It's for us, you can do that, like for specific goals that you can spend and use to your benefit now. Yeah, I like that. Okay, so Jessica, do you want to dive more into your story because I think there's a lot to be learned from you. How did you come across the financial independence movement? Like how long ago did you realize that this was a thing and that you wanted to get on board with it?

Jessica of The Fioneers 14:12

Yeah, so, just a little bit of background. I'm 33 years old, and I learned about financial independence when I was 30. And I actually learned about it from my husband. He has been, you know, really into finances ever since? Well, I really forever and I wasn't, and he introduced me to it. And he sort of every year for like the last probably six or seven years, he would sort of discuss the possibility of retiring early, like slightly earlier than the traditional retirement age and then be like, "Let's just plan to save 5% more this year." You know, and I and I always was like, "Why would we do that? Like I want to live my life. I want to travel. I want to spend money like I want to go out to eat, I want to do fun things, right?" It felt like we had, we had started our careers with really low incomes. And we were like starting to make actual money for the first time in our lives. And all he wanted to do was just save it all. That didn't make sense to me until three years ago. And so in late 2017, he actually gave me a copy of a book called Your Money or Your Life, which is, I think, a pretty foundational read in the in the FI space. And he's sort of proposed it as a like,"I just want you to understand, like, where I'm coming from, you don't have to buy into it. Like I just want to understand, I want you to understand my thought process and why I push it right?" And so it wasn't him saying like, you need to be all in on this kind of thing. So then I read the book. Fascinating. You know, like, I was definitely skeptical at first, you know, but I was intrigued by a couple of things. One of them was it was really the first introduction, that I had to like, realizing that there are people who choose the way that they live their life that they aren't just like following society's script and, you know, following the default and realizing that there's a way to actually live differently. I think I had sort of idealistic goals. And then when I got out into the real world, I was like, "Yeah, this isn't actually possible for people." And so that shifted my perspective a little bit. And then the other thing was, it was the first time I actually understood the finances of retirement. I think prior to that, I had really thought, like, you just save sort of as much as you can, and then hopefully, maybe you can retire someday. And be okay. So seeing the math and being like, Oh, this is like, based on some sort of formula and this is a real thing. You know, it was definitely intriguing. But I still at this point, like I think this was like the start of the turning point. But I wasn't ready to commit to it. I still felt like FI or FIRE was sort of this, this journey of deprivation where you're working a super high income job that you probably don't like, that has a long commute. You know, there are some things that are definitely similar about our stories, where you're trying to spend as little as possible, save as much as possible and then you like ride off into the sunset once you hit your FI number. That wasn't exciting to me. I was already in a pretty toxic job if I was at that point, making a pretty high income. And I didn't want to do that for another however many years and that's what I felt like FIRE would require of me. And so it took about six months after that of conversations of talking about our finances and thinking about you know, one of the core questions of the book, The Your Money or Your Life book, of what would I actually want to do if I didn't need to work for income? You know, I'm really, really exploring that idea. And then having conversations and starting to read, you know, financial independence content about people who had reached FI and said, I wish that I had gone slower and enjoyed the journey more. And so that, you know, was really sort of life changing perspective and sort of perspective changing for me to then say, "okay, we can do this, but we can also prioritize the journey as well." And once we sort of decided that and got on the same page, like I was ready to say, "Yes," I'm ready to go all in on this.

Jamila Souffrant 18:48

Yeah, I love that. You broke that all down. And so a couple things stick out- how your partner got you on board, which really, it wasn't pushy. It was more just like here. I just want you to understand this and I think for a lot of people, if you're listening to this with your partner, that's amazing because you both are already on it. But if one person is listening, and that's this is a new concept and their partner is used to living a different type of life or just has different goals, which is fine. I think some people think, "Okay, how do I get them as passionate about it as I am, because if we're both working towards it, it's gonna be way easier to get this done." And I like that you said like, it's really like him just saying, "Here's why I'm into this and just check out this book." And I think it to maybe help some people with how they can approach bringing this to their partner.

Jessica of The Fioneers 19:33

Yeah, definitely.

Jamila Souffrant 19:34

And then when it comes to I think this "all or nothing approach" that you talked about looking back and wanting to like, enjoy the journey, I think that's really important, right? Like, when you could go all out and work as hard as you can for that short period of time to earn as much as you can, to save as much as you can. But I always relate it back to, then what's the difference between let's just say and that's kind of where I was where I could have kept working in my corporate job for the next five years, and I earned my six figures and just stuck it out. But then I felt like how is that different? I mean, it's a shorter timeframe. But how is that different from waiting for standard retirement and just bearing with it? If everyday I'm not like, happy or living what I want to be, like my life, but now as I, you know, think about it, it's, it's interesting, because if you do place a lot of blame on your situation, like this, you say, like, it's the job, it's this. I sometimes feel like that also is not healthy, because it will always be something else. Like it's, um, it's an internal journey first, because I also find that if I had to work where I worked...There's some people right now, they don't have the option to quit their job yet. So they're in it. So we have the options because we did all these things. And we were earning good income to do what we did. But there's some people who don't right now have that option, and I don't want them to feel like well, I can't quit my job. And so now I'm miserable. It's like, "No, I think there's an internal journey that happens first, that you have to be okay with wherever you are, and know that you're situation, you are in control of it." So I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on that.

Jessica of The Fioneers 21:03

Yeah, definitely. So I mean, I guess one thing that I would say is like, I think there's a difference between a job that is generally fine, right that you need to like stick it out for a certain amount of time and a difference between a job that is completely toxic and like ruining your mental health right? If it's a job that's completely toxic, I don't necessarily think that's an it's an inside job for that but i think that's a pretty extreme scenario. But for people who are in you know, situations where you just need to chug along a little bit more to get you know, your numbers where you want them to be, like there are so many ways to make things better while you go right? And so as you continue to gain you know, more savings and more financial freedom or what I might call FU money, would you or your, your listeners familiar with the idea of FU money?

Jamila Souffrant 22:00

If they've listened for a while, they do know. But if they're new, they might be like, what is that? So you can explain it.

Jessica of The Fioneers 22:05

Yeah, so the idea is of FU money is like that you have enough in savings. That one, you're able to either sort of get out of a toxic situation or two, you start to be able to realize and feel like the own- your power that you have in a situation, to be able to like negotiate for things that you want or need. And so that could be things like working, negotiating a work from home arrangement once a week or a couple times a week or even talking to your boss or supervisor about doing more interesting work, right? So there's like a ton of small shifts that people are able to make within their jobs and outside of their work, right? So it could be setting better boundaries around your work so you have more time for things that you want to do in your personal life and in your family life. And so it's it's definitely not this this all or nothing concept like there's small shifts that we can make every day.

Jamila Souffrant 23:08

Right, right. So when you did now, get on board with you realize that you could make financial independence work for you. Right like at first, you thought this concept was something that was going to just be too extreme and wouldn't make you happy. But then you figured out that it didn't have to be the way maybe a lot of people talked about it, you can create your own kind of path. What were some of the things that you started to do differently to help now fast track you?

Jessica of The Fioneers 23:32

Yeah, so it's interesting. I wouldn't actually say many of the things fast tracked us. I think they will be fast tracked us to happiness more so than fast tracked us to FI. So first things first. So a week after we were like, "Yes, we're all in. We want to but we're like committed to enjoying the journey to FI but like we're doing it." One week after that, my job, my already toxic job got pretty bad. And I started having panic attacks and really severe anxiety, you know? And so this perspective of saying "We want the journey to be as remarkable as the destination" was really tested a week in, right? To say, "Okay, I'm starting to I'm having these panic attacks. Anytime I think about work or like open my work computer, what am I going to do about that? Right? Am I just going to quit the job? Am I going to try to take a leave of absence and go on disability? Or am I going to try to stick it out, right?" And I think like, two years ago, or two years prior to that me, probably would have felt like I had to stick it out. But then, you know, for me at that time, it was really the first time that I really understood like the power of finances, right? And the ways that it could help us, you know, today rather than just like some time off in the distant future. And so you know, and it was really my first time looking at finances in that way and sort of looking at it to say, "Okay, I need to figure out a decision that I'm gonna make today." Realizing by looking at it, I could just quit and never go back, right? If I wanted to, because I realized we had a certain, you know, amount in emergency savings and then realized we were already saving, you know, a good portion of our income. And so then realized, like, most of our expenses could be covered by one salary. And so because of that, it felt like an easy decision to say, of course, I wouldn't put myself through continuing to work through the anxiety and the panic attacks. And then it really became a decision of like, "Okay, do I want to just quit or do I want to like, see if I can get the disability ?" Like, "Am I willing to put in sort of like that much effort, you know?" And ultimately, I decided that that I did. And then after that, you know, I ended up quitting, I ended up not going back to that job, right? And so that that was also a hard decision because that was definitely a decision that was made for happiness, definitely not a decision that was made to like accelerate our FI journey. And then about six months later, I decided to actually go back to work part time. So working three days a week in a nonprofit organization, whose mission I really believe in, you know, it, right? And that also was not a decision that was made with our sort of Fi timeline, you know, accelerating that in mind. It was a looking at it and saying, "what are the trade offs?" Like, if I work part time, you know, we, we ran the numbers and we realized, okay, like, if I do 60% for six months, and then go up to 80%, like it'll only add two to three years onto our FI timeline or something like that, which is, you know, less than we thought it would be.

Jamila Souffrant 26:56

And this is why awareness is so important because then it gives you better options. Because as you were talking about, you knew that taking this break or going down in salary would impact the tail end of your journey by this amount of years, right? Like, that's helpful to know because it puts you in a better position to make a good decision because you know exactly what that decision cost you in the future. And same thing when I made the decision to quit my job, and I had my spreadsheet and I'm like, "Okay, if this is not making money, I have to go back to work or a traditional job in a couple years. How far off does that put us even though we're on Coast FI? How far does that put us off fin terms of early retirement or getting to our more aggressive financial goals? And I was like, okay, worst case, this pushes us back five years." I can deal with that. If that means that today I'm going to like have this time freedom. So that's why I think it's so important that we think about ways and for people to think about not just this far off goal 10, 15, 20 years from now, but like, what does it provide for you right now to get everything in order to understand the concepts? Even if you're in tons of debt, or everything's still just like new to you. What does it mean to start understanding like your financial life? Because it does make an impact today, it can help you right now.

Jessica of The Fioneers 28:10

Mm hmm. Absolutely. And I think about that, too, that isn't just your FI or you're not right? Like there's so many different levels of where people can be on sort of the spectrum of financial freedom that can give them so many more options. Like debt freedom gives people so many more options when their monthly costs are much lower. Right? They can stop working a side hustle, they could decide to quit a super high paying job that they don't like to do something that they enjoy more, right? There's, I think, an incredible amount of freedom with like, every additional dollar that you save.

Jamila Souffrant 28:56

Yeah. And then it's to it's like creating a life where you don't feel like you have to retire from or you know, a lifestyle where you love the work that you do. And it's like, "Look, I don't have to even do this work, but I'm doing it and it makes money like great, right?" Like, it's, I don't need to like, think about that I have to quit this because I enjoy it so much.

Jessica of The Fioneers 29:13

Mm hmm. Yeah. And that's actually a great segue. I love things like that's, I feel like the grand experiment that I'm trying right now. So like one thing, you know, I realized, like, my ultimate goal is I would love to be a location independent entrepreneur, right? And then I realized, like, "Oh, I don't actually need to be FI to do that, right?" And so on the side, I've been building up my blog, the FI years, I actually do some lifestyle design coaching, and some other personal projects. And I think the grand experiment is can I make money doing things I would want to do anyways, if I were FI? And then if that's the case, I can transition to that lifestyle so much earlier, whether that be if I make enough money to cover my full expenses, whether that'd be more of a Coast FI, or whether that be more of a semi retirement kind of thing later.

Jamila Souffrant 30:17

Yeah. And I love that because it also if you, if you can, if you have the capacity to, you can try those things now, even if you have a job. And I know that's hard. I'm a -I'm a mom of three. So I get it like, you know, sometimes it's just like, "Where, where do I have the time to try all these things and these side hustles while with my full time job kind of thing." But if you do have the capacity, you can test out on the side or for even a couple hours a week, doing the things you enjoy. Testing it out, just to see where it takes you to see where your joy takes you. And you may be surprised that it actually, there's some money at the end of that not more than you thought it could be and that can also help you get to your goals faster or just get to your goals.

Jessica of The Fioneers 30:58

And that's one thing I love about working part time, I think that I actually feel like more people than do would be able to work part time. I think if employers allowed it, but also if we sought it out, especially for people who want to start businesses, or to sort of work on their own projects on the side, I think it's a really incredible option to continue to earn an income to help you cover your expenses while trying out some of those really exciting and fun projects.

Jamila Souffrant 31:35

Right, right. And I feel like you know, there's so many reasons like why maybe somebody can't take advantage of that now, right? Like so there's the health care I don't know, you know, the health care's is such a big concern for some people, if you have kids, you know, and just expenses but I think it's not. It's not horrible, though, that even if that might not be what you can do right now, you don't think that, that may be possible for me in a couple years, right? Like we're in so Just don't maybe discount it just because right now it's not an option, but it can be maybe, maybe.

Jessica of The Fioneers 32:04

Yeah, absolutely.

Jamila Souffrant 32:06

Talk a little bit more about you said, fast tracking your way to like happiness. Would you consider yourself like super frugal, because we talked about like the spending number of $35,000 a year previously, right? And so I know for some people, I know for me, like, maybe when we don't have the responsibilities of the kids anymore, and a mortgage, that probably number would be still too low for us, like living in New York City. But you know, I can see some people saying,"Okay, that number seems really low for like, the life I want to live." Is it that you were already and I don't know that if that's your annual, like, expense number, but...

Jessica of The Fioneers 32:39

Oh, it is not okay.

That that is an example from a calculator that we provide on our website, expecting that someone is single.

Jamila Souffrant 32:50

Okay, so Okay, that makes like, yes. And you got to take that into account, right? a single person spending that versus someone...

Jessica of The Fioneers 32:56

And that is pretty low, right?Yeah. So that is definitely not our our annual expenses. We also live in Boston, so a higher cost of living area. And I wouldn't say we're super frugal, we definitely go out to eat, we like to go on vacation. I think that we really prioritize the values based spending. So like what are the things that bring us a lot of value, and we feel good spending on those, and then try to spend less on things that don't add value to our lives.

Jamila Souffrant 33:29

Right, right. And I think that it's important to note because what also is the theme that I see from my own experience from you, from other people who have reached this level is yes, there's some, there's some aspects of obviously intentional spending and being somewhat frugal, right? Like I may I think, in certain ways, I'm frugal, but in other ways I'm not right. I'm just like, I'm not gonna worry about this like $5 right now. I'm just gonna spend it kind of thing. That's my like approach sometimes. But a lot of it too while the expenses are important, it's the income. And so that's why I always think like, because cutting back has a limit, your income can be limitless. And thinking about how to encourage or help people earn more money, like not just cutting back, but how can you earn more money to support the lifestyle you want, to support saving and investing more aggressively? So for you guys, was it that you always in the beginning when you were working were on the track to having high income? Or did you intentionally, like do things to help your income increase over time?

Jessica of The Fioneers 34:30

We were not on track to have high incomes right away. And so we actually, my husband and I have both worked in nonprofit organizations for the vast majority of our career. I think I never ever in my life expected that I would make six figures. And that you know, so we started out one of my first jobs was with AmeriCorps and I lived in northern New Jersey, so New York City metro area, and I made $11,000 dollars a year. So that was tough. It was very, very challenging to do. And I think, you know, I learned a lot from that experience. And it sort of helped to launch my career in the nonprofit space. But I did realize that people in nonprofits also if you sort of work your way, up the ladder, you can, you know, continue to earn a higher income over time. And so in that time, I actually did get a master's degree in Public Administration, which then allowed me to move into HR, which then a lot, you know, helped me to increase my income by about 100%. So doubling it over the course of like a four year time span. And I think that ultimately, that was a big part of what enabled me to scale back, right? To be able to take a 50% pay cut because I doubled my you know, I I was able to double my income. So taking a 50% pay cut was my income of what I had been doing full time four years ago, right? And so that's what made it possible for me to be able to do that.

Jamila Souffrant 36:14

Yeah. And I love that because it also gives people the incentive or idea that yes, even though I might not be a higher income earner now, I might feel like I'm in an industry that's typically not for high earners. It's like, actually, no, there are some people no matter what industry it is that are making money. So how do you find out who those people are and what track they took to get there? And time and time again, I know it's about relationships and who you know, and networking and getting that advanced degree as long as it doesn't put you into further debt that you can't pay.

Jessica of The Fioneers 36:45

Mm hmm. Yeah, first so for me for the first school I actually went to a state school at night while I was working full time, so I went to school part time and was able to pay for the degree you know, using my own cash flow. So for me, I found that to be totally worth it. Looking back, if I had taken out loans and like not worked during that time, I might regret it.

Jamila Souffrant 37:10

Right, right. So when it comes to anyone right now, right, they're like, "Alright, I found out about this financial independence thing. It sounds amazing. Because if the idea now is that I have enough money where I can quit the job that I don't like, or just do something I enjoy without worrying about money, because I'm at Coast FI, I got enough money saved," that seems like a really great deal for them. But then they're also thinking, but if I just stick it out, and I hustle for the next 5-10 years, like, let's not even do Coast FI. Let's just get to the FI number, which is would require a lot more in a shorter amount of time. How does one decide between the two or what things should people start thinking about to design their own life? Right, like because it works for them, not just because someone on the podcast is like telling them?

Jessica of The Fioneers 37:55

Mm hmm. Yeah. I think there's a couple things that I would say. So I think the first one is that early retirement and Coast FI are not necessarily mutually exclusive, right? So you could say, I want my early retirement date to be 50 or 55. And then you could do the same calculations, and then say, I want to get to a point where maybe in my early 40s, then I can just coast right to that early retirement data 50, right? So it's not so cut and dry, right, that it's either one or the other. And I think there's, you know, there's a spot in between the two as well, which is that what I call semi retirement. So it's to a point where you have more you could start to pull out of your retirement accounts, but you would still need to generate some active income. So for example, I have a friend who, when I first met her, she said, "You know, I'm planning to fully retire in 2023. And I'm gonna, like, you know, do all of these things, move to a ski town." And I started talking with her about it. And she found, you know, one of the calculators on our website and worked through it and realized that if she left her job, actually, this year, she would only need to generate $5 to $10,000 of active income a year to supplement anything that she pulled out of her retirement accounts. And she was like, "Wow, I could get a random part time job or like, do a couple consulting gigs a year or I'd be able to walk dogs right to be able to cover that difference." And so she ended up deciding to quit the job she didn't like, and was really dreading thinking about being there for another three years this year, right? And so she actually decided to quit that and is now figuring out you know, what are the fun side ways she wants to generate income. So it isn't just right, one or the other. And I think it depends on your, your comfort level too, like do you want- when do you want to feel like you're set? I think there's a couple things that I would start to focus on, like figure out how to do work that you enjoy, right? And I and again, I don't necessarily think that there's sort of an all or nothing concept between like, a job I don't like and the like, absolute thing that I love, right? I think there's ways that we can adapt what we're currently doing to build new skills to try out new things that we want to see if we want to pursue that in the future. And there's ways to like make those little shifts as we go and to help us like build up the things that we would want to do in the future. So yeah, so I think I around work, I'd start there. But it's not just all about work, right? I think a big part of it is saying like what do I have in my personal life that I want to be focusing on and that brings me meaning and fulfillment. And I think that's really, you know, I think there's so many ways that our jobs might not be the place where we get that. And I think it's a sort of myth that people are looking for that always from their jobs, like, I don't think it's necessarily going to give that to us. And so building up lives that we love outside of work, I think plays a huge role in our level of satisfaction within our work as well.

Jamila Souffrant 41:32

Oh, my gosh, it's I'm so glad you just brought that up. It reminds me of being in a relationship. Like if you put all everything on your partner to make you happy, and to be the end all you know, then you're going to be pretty disappointed because that's just not how it usually works. And building up yourself and doing all the things that make you happy, in general, will make the relationship better because you're focused on your own happiness. So I think that's a great point. And what I what I think is amazing for people is like what your friend, like she had so much freedom, she didn't realize the freedom she had already accumulated or her options. She didn't realize it until she saw the numbers. And she took stock of everything. Like she thought she was more stuck than what she was. And I think a lot of people are in that. Well, I know times are hard, you know, with the pandemic, and just the social uprisings and everything happening and so- everything for people going on right now. I know mentally and emotionally, things are hard for a lot of people. So I want to acknowledge that. And I also feel that you may have more freedom than you think at the moment. So I'm hoping that this inspires people to really like confront the numbers, even if it's, you know, seems bleak at first, but to really look at them, because you may surprise yourself. You may be like, "Wow, this is not as bad as I thought. you know, like, I'm kind of on track here."

Jessica of The Fioneers 42:51

Mm hmm. Yeah, definitely. And yeah, I think understanding the numbers was such a difference maker for me. And I stayed in a toxic job for years longer than I needed to because I didn't realize that I could decide to make a shift.

Jamila Souffrant 43:13

Yeah, yeah, I love that. Okay, so I, I'm gonna get all like the really like, cool articles you've written and like the calculators for me so put it in the show notes so people can like check those out because I know they're just like,"Okay, now how do I like figure this out?" So, Jessica, please tell everyone where they can find out more about you, follow you on your journey, and all your social media contact.

Jessica of The Fioneers 43:33

Absolutely. So my blog is the Fioneers. So you can find that at TheFioneers.com. You can also find me on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram @TheFioneers. We do have a Facebook group for people who are interested in this idea of slow FI or Coast FI and wanting to make the journey to FI be as remarkable as the destination. It's called Slo FI Enthusiasts. So if you're interested in that you can go to thefioneers.com/FB.

Jamila Souffrant 44:05

Right. And I'll link all that in the episode show notes. Thank you so much again, Jessica, for coming on sharing your story and just more about like these amazing concepts that I think everyone should know.

Jessica of The Fioneers 44:16

Thanks for having me. It was a pleasure.

Jamila Souffrant 44:22

Okay, Journeyers. I really hope you enjoyed that conversation with Jessica. Again, if you want the show notes, I'll be linking all of the blogs that we had mentioned that Jessica talked about. And then just some other resources in the episode show notes. So wherever you're listening to this, there should be a read more or description, or go to the site JourneytoLaunch.com. And I really hope in terms of when you're thinking about how you can reach financial independence, that you realize you can craft the path all on your own, or all of your own, I should say. So meaning you don't have to necessarily follow what you hear other people doing if it does not resonate for you. If you don't want to be super frugal, and you want to focus more on growing your income, you can do that. If you want a more balanced approach where it takes you longer because you value more time, your current time, then do that, right? I talked about this in the interview with Jessica that, for me, that's that's how I felt when I intentionally left a well paying job to do this full time to have more freedom in my day to day schedule with my kids, is I chose to walk away from that so that I can be more intentional about how I'm actually living my life. So I want you guys to really think about this. Think about how you can lead a more intentional life to FI. You know, I was assume that a lot of people who listen to the show, Journey to Launch, want a more balanced approach, because maybe it's just because I just I have a balanced approach to financial freedom and money. I'm not all one way or the other. You know, I support anyone, you know, whatever works for you, works for you. But I just want you to just recognize and realize that you have the power. There's so many ways to think about this. So I hope this allows you- one more you know tool that you can put in your toolbox to help you get to your goals.

If you want to check out the episode shownotes that's where you can get links to anything that's mentioned, find out more about our guests, and even get a transcribed version of this episode that you can read, go to JourneytoLaunch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode. Now you can also still grab your free Journeyer Jumpstart Guide by texting, "launch" to 33777 or go to JourneytoLaunch.com/jumpstart. If you want to support me and the podcast and love the free content and information that you get here, here are four ways that you can support me in the show. One, make sure you're subscribed to the podcast wherever you listen, whether that's Apple podcasts, that purple app on your phone, your Android device, YouTube, Spotify, wherever it is that you happen to listen, just subscribe so you are not missing an episode. And if you're happening to listen to this in Apple podcasts, rate, review, and subscribe there. I appreciate and read every single review. Number two, follow me on my social media accounts. I'm @JourneytoLaunch on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. And I love love love interacting with Journeyers there. Three, support and check out the sponsors of this show. If you hear something that interests you, sponsors are the main ways we keep the podcast lights on here. So show them some love for supporting your girl. Four, and last but not least, share this episode this podcast with a friend or family member or co worker so that we can spread the message of Journey to Launch. Alright, that's it. Until next week, keep on journeying, Journeyers.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Jamila Souffrant 0:00

You're listening to the Journey to Launch Podcast: How to Become Your Own Financial Expert and Build a Financial Life That's Sustainable With Your Values and Desires With Saundra Davis.

Recording 0:15

Welcome to the Journey to Launch Podcast with your host Jamila Souffrant. As a money expert who walks her talk, she helps brave journeyers like you get out of debt, save, invest, and build real wealth. Join her on the journey to launch to financial freedom in five, four, three, two, one.

Jamila Souffrant 0:42

Hey, hey, hey journeyers! Oh, welcome to the Journey to Launch Podcast. Buckle up because we are about to take off. I'm really excited for you to hear today's conversation. This week's episode with special guest, Saundra Davis. Now I want to just give you a little background about Saundra. You know, I came into the space as a blogger then podcaster. And then you know all the other titles that come along with doing what I'm doing. But Saundra has been in this game for years like she I call, you know, one of the vets. I feel like I'm still fairly new in the personal finance space, although I've made a name for myself, and I've already been able to impact people the way I have. I'm super inspired by Saundra and her commitment to her craft to financial education. She teaches how to teach other coaches like how to coach about money and you'll hear it you'll hear how she's so good at it. Through her words, through her tone, through her style. I mean, this was an amazing conversation. We went there in this conversation. We talked about money. We talked about living a sustainable life that you enjoy, how to become your own personal finance expert. I thought it was an enlightening conversation. I hope you do too.

Now let me just give you a little background I have to read Saundra's bio, just because it's that impressive. But Saundra Davis is a US Navy veteran financial coach, speaker, educator and consultant, who is nationally recognized and is an expert in the financial coaching field for her work in community based organizations that focus on asset building for the working poor. She is the Founder and Executive Director of Sage Financial Solutions, a San Francisco Bay Area based organization that develops comprehensive financial capability programs for low and moderate income communities. Now, I again can't wait for you to hear more of what Saundra has to say. You may have to listen to this more than once.

If you want the episode show notes for this episode, go to JourneytoLaunch.com or you can click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode to get the full episode show notes. Now if you are a new listener to the podcast, an OG Journeyer, I've created a Jumpstart Guide to help you on your journey to financial freedom. It includes the top episodes to listen to, the stages to go through to reach financial freedom, resources to help you, and so much more. Get it for FREE by texting, "launch" to 33777. Text "launch" to 33777 or go to JourneytoLaunch.com/jumpstart to get your guide for free right now. Okay, let's hop into the episode.

Welcome journeyers! I'm really excited, as I always am, to speak to today's special guest in the rocket seat. I'm going to start saying that now, Saundra. In the rocket seat today is Saundra Davis. Saundra, welcome to the podcast.

Saundra Davis 3:46

Thank you. It is so good to be here and I like that rocket seat thing. I'll take that.

Jamila Souffrant 3:51

Yeah, we're getting ready to blast off and I think our listeners journeyers are in for a real treat. Because Saundra, you've been in this game for such a long time, like personal finance, and helping communities that need it, learn about how to become financially empowered. And what I love most about you is not only do you help like communities like people, but you also help people like myself, learn how to coach and do better at my job, which is coming to the people where they are and helping them with their finances. So we're going to get into more of your background, but I'm happy that we finally got a chance because we've been trying to do this for a while now to sit down and chat.

Saundra Davis 4:30

Well, I'm glad we are to and I'm ready for it. I'm ready for it. I'm so proud of the work that you're doing. And you know, and aside from the guests that you have on, even just when you're doing your solo thing I like your solo jams too.

Jamila Souffrant 4:43

Thank you. I know I need to do more of those. I'm just like, every year I'm like, I'm gonna do more solo episodes, but I am guys I am a promise. So Saundra, tell people listening right now who don't know you like how long you been in the personal finance space in the work that you do.

Saundra Davis 4:58

Yeah, so It seems like so long, Jamila, I started in 2004. I actually went back to school and got my master's degree in personal financial planning in 2004. And this was after you know, and at that point, I was 40. Yeah, I was 44. So at that point, I had already made every money mistake possible, and some of them twice, right? And so I was on the heels of a very successful, nonprofit, organizational development consulting firm that I built, and I was exhausted. And I was done. I was just done. I didn't know what I was going to do. I took a year off. Hung out for a while, couldn't figure out really what I wanted. You know, and I think that happens a lot for people in that age, right? Because you go to that place of "Oh, I should be at a certain place at 40. I should already have done..." and I was feeling some of that. Not a lot of it, but enough of it to feel some angst you know? I tell people all the time my my partner is an investor. He's a trader and he does this for himself. And he taught me how to trade. And I learned that first actually I learned and I was so excited about doing Japanese candlesticks and all that, and I was doing all that stuff. But I was clear that I couldn't do it for a living. It just was not exciting to me. I couldn't sit there and watch the market, tick up and tick down. And I just, you know, I didn't have the stomach for it. And so he said, "Hey, so why don't you be a financial planner?" And so I went to a bookstore and I saw this book where the author said if you are going to hire a financial planner, hire a CFP, or better yet someone with a Master's degree in Financial Planning, so I got a Master's degree in Financial Planning.

Jamila Souffrant 6:36

Wow. And so you were also seems like had some experience but was short term trading like day trading through your partner.

Saundra Davis 6:43

Swing mostly. So okay, he was more of a day trader, I was more of a swing trader and and it was fine, you know, but I committed the cardinal sin, you know? I get attached to the stock. So, you know, I committed the cardinal sin, and so knowing that about myself and knowing that it was just never something that was going to work for me, because of the emotional aspect of it. And I guess now in hindsight, and actually, I've never really thought about it until you and I are having this conversation. When I look at where I am now, it makes perfect sense that I could not do that then, makes perfect sense. Everything you believe about money, and everything that you do about money, makes perfect sense if you understand your money beliefs.

Jamila Souffrant 7:28

Yes.

Saundra Davis 7:29

Right? And so I am risk averse. I know I'm risk averse.

Jamila Souffrant 7:34

And so many things I love about what you just said. I want to try and hopefully get all the points out. You just talked about knowing thyself. And what happens is there are a lot of things that someone can choose to do to earn money. There's real estate. There's trading like swing trading, day trading. There is you know, starting a business, being an entrepreneur or doing something exciting. Like they're all these things shiny objects, and I I like actually talking about them on the show because I want to give people options. And sometimes people will be like, "Oh, that looks good. Oh, that seems that that's great." But the really the key is to understand who you are, like you said, like your money mindset, your money beliefs, and some of them, you can change, right? Like, you could be like, "You know what? I don't want to stay a prisoner to this belief. I can break out of that and become more risk taking whatever." Or some of it is just like, you know what, I'm comfortable here. And I need to find something that works for my personality. But I think it's so important to know thyself, and sometimes knowing thyself does mean taking risks and doing things to find out that youdon't like it.

Saundra Davis 8:36

And sometimes you have to take risk, right? And that happens a lot. But and I think that this is one of the things that I want to make sure that people hear is that I was at the stage where I couldn't do the traditional things that people think about. I couldn't do the safe thing. I could go and get a job. Hope that I'm earning enough to be able to put enough away to be able to retire at what people think of as the standard retirement age of 65 years old. So at 40, and even, you know, more drastically at 44, I knew that that wasn't going to work for me. I've had a successful business, I enjoyed the business. And while I was done doing that, I had to make a decision. And that meant actually taking on more risk. So I could have gone, you know, found a job somewhere I, you know, had my undergrad degree, I had a very robust, professional background. I could have gone and gotten a job and hope for the best. But the chances of me being able to put away enough money in 20 years to be able to retire at 65 was not likely at all. And so I knew at 44, I was not going to have enough to retire. And so I had to figure out what was I going to do? And so I had to invest in myself again. So at 44 literally, I took out a home equity line of credit. I got some loans, I got some scholarships, and I went and I did my master's degree. And it started me on a trajectory that ended up with me actually being one of the very first folks to do comprehensive financial planning specifically for people who were very low resource, very low net worth folks. And so I took a big risk. Now I am very risk averse. I'll tell you in a minute, if I go if I go to Vegas, number one, if I go to Vegas, I go to Vegas with $20 worth of quarters in my right pocket. Okay, I put those quarters in the machine and anything that comes out of the machine goes in my left pocket. When the right pocket is empty, I'm out. I'm out. I do not I don't care for risk. It's just not my personality. But I had to take the risk on me. And so there's this understanding that when you are thinking about an investment of your time, and your and your financial resources, you have to decide what does risk mean? And what does it mean to you? So for me, even though I'm a very risk averse person, and that's why swing trading was not a good fit for me, investing in my own business and knowing that I was going to make very, very little when I got broke into this field back in 2004. But now I'm living exactly the life that I want. You know, I live the life that most people think of in retirement.

Jamila Souffrant 11:19

Wow. And I love how you're talking about there's a difference in looking at risk. And the thing about it too, is while you're risk adverse, yet more things you can't control. So like you can't control the market, right? And you know yourself as someone who may be more emotional and will hold on to like a stock so you're just like, "Alright", but it sounds like you, because you had such an ability and you were entrepreneur before and you had a successful business that you took the risk on yourself because you believed in yourself. There are some people like that where like, I can bet on myself because I know if it's on me, like I'll make it work. But the other things that I can't control I'm more just afraid to do and I just think it's great for people to think about how they are in life business, um, investments in themselves. And if you can truly believe in yourself, then any risk, whether it's education, time that you put into yourself and what you need to do will be beneficial.

Saundra Davis 12:13

Right. And the thing is, if one thing doesn't work, I just do something else, you know? So it's not like had I gone a certain route, and that route didn't work or that route wasn't satisfying, that I couldn't do something else. And that's the benefit of taking that risk and making that investment in yourself. There's nothing and I tell people all the time I'm, I train a lot of young professionals, as you know, you know. I teach coaches, I train coaches. And I often hear people say, "Oh, I just wish I had done this earlier. I wasted so much time." And you know, I tell people, "Look, when I stand up in front of the room, whether it is 5 people, 500, 5,000, when I'm in front of the room, everything that I have ever been and everything that I've ever done, shows up in that moment, shows up in that moment, and so the very best and sometimes the worst of me, right? It's all there in that moment. And so I don't have any regrets that I didn't do this until my 40s." You know, 40 seems so old when you're 40. And so young when you're 60, right? And so just kind of understand that, wherever it is you are and whatever it is that you're trying to accomplish, what investment are you making in yourself? And even if you know, I've heard people say, "Oh, well, I got this degree, and I'm not really doing the thing." That's really not the point. What did you get from that experience that informs where you are now? What did you get from that time you spent that instructs where you want to go going forward, right? I learned as much about what I don't want, as what I do want. All of that matters. And you know, people might think, "Oh, well, how does this relate to money?" I'll tell you, I know a whole lot of people who do work that is considered similar to what I do and make a lot more money than I do and do not love their lives like I love mine. And so you got to decide what's most important, and where you want to end up, and what you're willing to do on the journey. I know and I knew when I changed careers, and I took out those loans, and I did all the stuff that I had to do to get that Master's degree, I was creating a life. I was going to have to work longer than 65 I will be working into my 70s but I also chose to do something that I love so much. I don't care how long I work. You know, I'll work until I don't want to.

Jamila Souffrant 14:33

Yeah. And I think that is what everyone really deep down is striving for. So this financial independence term and retiring early. Most people like when they say it, like it's I know when I speak for myself is that I wanted to retire from my job that didn't love but I want to work, whatever that means, you know, and you work can be mean a lot of things and be a lot of things. And so I think like you said the goal is the journey itself. And the fabric of your life experiences create the person you are today. And so I'm curious to know so before you end up until 44, how are you with your finances? You had a business and it seemed like it was successful when you had your business, you weren't even saving for retirement or any of that.

Saundra Davis 15:18

I took care of everybody, but me. I took care of everybody but me, the folks who work for me, my employees, I took care of everybody, my family, everybody, but me. Did I mention everybody? And so, I am a product of a generation, that if one of us makes it in our families, we look out for everybody else. You know, I was fortunate that you know, when I say our families, I mean kind of an extended family as well. You know, my brothers are successful, they're doing their thing. They live in lives that they love as well. But one of the things that my mom did not have was education. To financial security, she was a maid when I was a little girl. So by the time I was 15, I was contributing to the household because I had to join the Navy at 17, got out broke with a son, you know, and so I really didn't learn anything about money until I was in my 40s. I made good money, but I also either spent and not really on extravagant things. I you know, it wasn't really that it was just, I shared what I had with whoever needed it, you know, both in my family and outside of my family. And so I never really knew that whole concept of putting myself first. You know, I never knew that that was a thing. And although after I got out of the Navy, I did know that there was this, you know, when I was civil servant, they had this plan, this retirement plan. I didn't know what that meant. They told me the day I left civil service. They said, "Hey, you know, you have this account. And you have a couple of options. You can roll it over. You can leave it where it is, or you can take it out." Guess what I did? I was 25 Guess what? Did girl I took it out. I partied like it was my birthday I but I didn't know you know, I was 25 years old. I didn't understand that that was money for future Saundra. I didn't understand that that money when I was 25 was for Saundra at 65. I didn't know that I didn't know her, right? I didn't know 65 year old Saundra. And so it was very difficult to think about her. When I knew that I had my mom. I knew that I had my son. I knew that I was a single woman trying to survive in San Francisco. And so, you know, I did what I knew to do at that space and time in my life. And you know, I made every mistake possible. And it really wasn't until I did my masters in personal finance that I really learned something differently.

Jamila Souffrant 17:50

Yeah, so I know there are journeyers listening and are in the situation that you were coming up right? Before you got your degree and did personal finance, that are supporting a lot of people in their family, because culturally, that's what you do. And that's expectation and they want to, but it's at almost a detriment to what's happening for them. What advice do you give them? Because, you know, depending on personality, too, right? Like, I remember telling someone, someone who was a new mom, like, "Your time now, like, tell people No." and they're like, "Jamilla, that's because you're you and you can tell people no easily, but in my culture in my family, like, that doesn't fly. " And so I'm wondering if there's some advice or now that you have your perspective, if you would have done what you would have done differently first, and to help maybe someone right now who's just like, wow, like, like, I'm helping everyone else and I want to, but it's really, I'm afraid about my future, like, what should they do right now?

Saundra Davis 18:46

Yeah, yeah. So number one, I think it's really important, culturally, you know, in the black community, that's what I do. That's what we do. You know, and so, my job was to look out for my mom and I looked out for my mom till the day she was no longer here physically, and so I have no regrets about that. What I did learn after learning about money, which is like I said, why I did this personal finance degree. And I did it, number one, because I needed to know how to be better with money. And then my family needed to know how to be better with money. And then every person I knew, particularly in the black community, I wanted to understand how people who had wealth, knew how to acquire, build it and transfer it. And so I was obviously old enough at that point, my son was, you know, 20 or so. My mom was 60 or so. And so, I wanted to make sure that I wasn't repeating what I had learned from my mom. I had already made a lot of mistakes for myself and was then making those same mistakes with my son. So I had the benefit of this generational experience of distressing financial experience. And so rather than just say no, what I did was I started to talk to my family about money differently. And I explained that look, I don't want us to always be in financial distress one generation after the next. And so in order to do that, I have to set some financial goals. And in order to meet those financial goals, I have to set some financial boundaries. This is what I can do. And this is what I can no longer do, right? And so granted, I'm not telling you that that was easy. I'm not telling you that they received it well. You know, I can remember my mom saying,"Well, sweetheart, can you send me on a trip?" She want to go on a trip to Alaska. I'll never forget. "Can you send me on a trip?" I said,"No, I can't. But what I can do, what I can do is show you how to break it down so that you can save for that trip yourself." And so I helped her do a budget, I helped her set up how much it took. I think it ended up she had to save like $25 bucks a week to be able to do the thing that she wanted to do. And so then I, you know, that's actually when I learned how to coach, right? Because my mama was my first client. So what things do you have to do? What adjustments would you have to make, to be able to spend $25 less to put it on this trip? And she said, "Oh, well, I could do this, that and the other." She came up with whatever thing was, might have been going out to dinner after church, one Sunday, a month, right? And so I said, "Okay, so think about how important this trip to Alaska is. Tell me what's important to you about that trip". And she said, "Oh, you know, I'll be able to relax, I'm going to hang out with the other old ladies in the church. And we're going to do, we're going to eat all day, because on these cruises, they get they feed them all day long. And they're going to do all those things." I said, "Okay. So when you look at what you have to give up, and what you're going to get, which one of those things is more important to you?" And she said, "Oh, definitely going on the trip" and said, "Okay, so what do you need to do?" And so she learned, I mean, so so not only did I set a boundary that I held, and I didn't always. I don't want you to think like once I learned, oh, this, you know, that's not how it works, you know? But in that moment, I did something that was helpful for her. It was helpful for me. And it reinforced something that I was then trying to learn to pass down in my family.

Yeah, so you empowered the people around you through your education and knowledge.

Yeah, yeah. And, and it was difficult, you know? Because there used to me just opening the wallet. And when I decided to stop opening the wallet and say, "This is what I'm willing to do. And this is what I can help you learn to do." And so I don't, you know, I know a lot of people say, you know, just say no, and you don't have to do it. You know, I tend to take a kinder, gentler approach to family and money because I know that for black folks, particularly, we have a lot of wounds around money. You know, we have a lot of pain around money. And I think it's important that we don't hurt each other more. I think it's important that we hold each other with kindness and compassion. Because I mean, I've had the family members call me because the electricity was cut off again. I can either shame, blame and abuse them, or I can say, "Okay, look, how do you avoid this again? What needs to happen for you?" And I can spend that kind of time, you know, and so now you don't get to have my money without, you know, my coaching, right? And so and I tell other people, like, I get a lot of people that call me and say, "Oh, I want to send so and so I want to send my daughter, my son, my cousin to you, they keep coming to me for money." And I said, "well, so here's the thing. I'm more than willing to talk to people in their family members. But when I'm talking to that family member, it is not to try to get them to think how you think it's trying to help them understand. How do you think about money in your life? And where is that helping you? And where is it harming you? And so how do we shift that?" Because once that shift starts to happen now when they're coming to you for help, it's really more about forward progress rather than fixing you know, a misstep.

Jamila Souffrant 24:14

Yeah. And that's one of the things you talk about often is just becoming your own financial expert. And that's part of the empowering part is that you show someone like, look, while I may be leading or a little steps ahead of you, you are your expert. And in helping someone uncover that, in your experience, right, what are some of the things that have prevented people from making the changes right? So someone could, you know, listen to you and say, well, yes, the Alaska trip for that trip in the future is important. And me cutting out or having to sacrifice to do this differently today. I can do but what prevents people from maybe sticking with it or starting because I think people have the thought that they want to do it and then you know, things get a little icky once they start.

Saundra Davis 24:56

This is the distinction between coaching and any other intervention, right? Coaching is unlike education, counseling, planning, therapy, coaching is not the same as any of those other financial interventions. And what makes this approach different is that you're supporting that client in not only knowing what's most important, and gathering up their internal motivation. So I don't use the term that I empower other people, I help people find their own power. So if I say, "Jamila, I'm going to empower you. " What am I saying about where your power is right now? I don't empower people. I support people in finding their power. And then once they make that decision, that they have a goal that they want to achieve, how do they either maintain their motivation? Or come back and get it when they've lost it, right? And so for my mom, sure, it's easy until Sunday comes and all of the sisters are saying, "Hey, let's go out to blob blob restaurant right?" So yeah, Alaska is not on her mind in that moment. What's on her mind in that moment is getting that need met of this sisterhood. So what's important about that? What are you feeding? And so often we shame and blame and abuse people. And that's actually the opposite of help you right? So when we say, "Well, you know, you just need to do you know, what's the slogan, just do it," you know, those kinds of things. That's not helpful. That's not helpful for behavior change. Now, are there some people who you can say,"Hey, you know what, you need to do this, this, this and this," and they take it and run sure. But more often than not, people are not inclined, we're humans are not built that way. And if you think about it, our evolution, if you will, is counter to saving. You know, we were hunters and gatherers, we hunt. We eat what we got, and then we migrate and move on to the next place. So saving is actually a burden in that. And our brains still hold parts of that, and the brain science will do tell you those things. But the thing I'll say now is that when people have something that they want, what is going to make it sticky for them? So let's use my mom's example. So okay, it's Sunday. Church is over. We all been there, everybody's hungry, cuz we Pentecostal, so we've been in church all day. Right? And so everybody's hungry wants to go out? What can you do in that moment? So my job as coach is not just to say, "oh, okay, you're excited about this, these are the steps you're going to take and to leave you to your own devices, right?" Because if that if it were that easy, they would have done it already. So what's going to make it sticky? What are the things that you could do? And so then together, we brainstorm what's possible. Of the things that are possible which one of these things do you want to do? And then if you find that you're having trouble sticking to that, what else could you do? So we've got not only a plan A but we've got a plan B too. And then that way we can make decisions about what happens when things don't go as you desire. And sometimes, I mean, think about it, think about a time that you had every intention of going home and have cooking dinner, and doing all the things that you know, keep you within your budget. And then some part of your day says, "You know what? Not today, right?" In that moment, how do you choose? Do you choose the thing that is most satisfying in that moment? Or the thing that aligns with the goal? And I would contend that the healthiest way to look at it is, if in that moment, you need something that is different than what aligns to your goal. What are you willing to adjust? What can you adjust? So it might mean, Okay, you know what, today? I'm grabbing food, I'm going home. I'm not you know, so the self care you needed in that moment was that. Okay, so now, I chose this today. So next week, I have to choose something different. Tomorrow, I have to choose something different. So giving yourself the freedom and the latitude to say, okay, 90% of the time, I'm going to stick to this thing. I need 10% to be flexible. So if you know that your personality and it is mine, I mean, look, if I do 80/20, I'm good. If I do 80/20, I'm good, right? Because I'm not that person. I'm not disciplined in that way, nor do I care to be, nor do I care to be. And so I think that that it gets back to, you know, how you just aptly said it, know thyself. And if you know that, you know, I was talking to a woman, a neighbor here, and she says, "You know, Saundra, I listened to you on some show that you were on and I picked up all the documents, and then I just put them to the side." And I said, "Okay, so tell me what happened with that." She says, "You know, I just think feel so bad, you know, because I should be in a better place than I am right now. And she says you know. So I started looking back at all those times that I was buying coffee and a morning bun every day, you know, I was buying a coffee and a morning bun every day, and I was just wasting it because at the end of the day, a cup of coffee still sitting on my desk, so I'm buying the coffee, not even drinking it." I said, "Okay, so what were you really buying?" And she stopped. And she said, "I was buying the courage to go into my office." And I said, "Okay, so that is what you needed in that moment to do that thing. What are you willing to do differently today?" And that's really the point. That's why I tell people you know, and, you know, I kind of pulled this in, everybody's turned into a hashtag. Now, the no shame zone because it's so important to not abuse ourselves for the things that we shoulda, woulda, coulda done. It doesn't help.

Jamila Souffrant 31:02

Oh my gosh, I listening to you say that so many light bulbs went off because we do what we can in the moments that we're experiencing them. And yes, things can be done better what? And mistakes, but there really are no mistakes, like you said. And I know that resonated, it resonated with me like the people who maybe are buying things maybe outside of their budget that they can afford, because they're trying to cope with the life, right? That they're not happy with like that that's their coping mechanism. Like that. And, and that is something that a lot of people do. And if that's what it takes for you to survive the day in the moment, especially during these times, oh my gosh, can we talk about how stressful a lot of what's happening on so many fronts is for people and it's not to say like, "Here's your permission, just to like continue to like dig, dig a hole for yourself." But it's like, no need to shame and feel bad to the point where you can't make a change if that's what you want to do.

Saundra Davis 32:00

Right, right. And that's what I tell people around and even myself, I put a lot of money into making my patio more pleasant. Because I'm home. You know, I'm a home for a period of time that I have never been at home at one time before. I have been home for going on four months now. And I needed to be able to have a place that was safe and outside that was pleasant for me. And so, now, I have to make adjustments now, right? I have to spend less now, because I chose to do that in May, you know? I guess the thing I want to say, Jamilla, about that is that when you are finding that you're doing something that is contrary to what you would like to be doing, start first with, what are you trying to satisfy? What are you trying to satisfy? And if you can get to that if you can get to well, you know, I, you know, I shop online, because I'm proud that I can do this for myself. It could be I mean, there's no telling what it could be. Everybody has a different motivation for what they do. And once you find yours, you can determine if you want to continue that way. Or if you want to find another way to satisfy that need. So with the sister with a cup of coffee every day, it's like "Okay, so how else could you satisfy or build that courage? What else could you do?" I could pick up the phone and talk to a girlfriend I could. I could do some mantras. I could do a meditation I could do it. So once she started thinking about the other ways to satisfy what she was really buying, then now she has the power to choose. And I tell people once you know your why you can really find the will, which will clarify your way, right? And so when you when you can do that, the first thing is really understanding what's most important here. And when you think about what's most important, sometimes it's just , "Look, I felt I deserved it, you know? I've been working hard. I wanted the thing. I feel like I deserve the thing. I'm getting the thing." Okay, that's fine. And when you say yes to one thing, you're saying no to something else. So when you say yes, what are you saying no to? And if you're okay with saying no to that thing, then the decision is yours. I mean, the decision is yours anyway. But now you're making a mindful decision. Right? You're not making an impulsive decision. You're making a decision that's based on satisfying something a need a want, whatever it is, that you have, and you made a choice. And so how, where do you put that? Where do you put that for yourself? Do you then spend days,months, years regretting it? Or do you say, "Hey, I wanted that at that time, I did that thing and now, this is what I have to do, to continue to thrive and to continue to build the lifestyle that I want." So it's not like okay, now this is my punishment. You know, it's now, "Okay, I wanted that I did it. Now, I also want this thing. So what do I have to do to get there?" So whether that's debt free, whether that's homeownership, whether that's FIRE the retirement early, which, you know, I know a lot of people in my age group and a lot of professional financial planners are anti that movement, I have to say, in my mind, the worst case scenario of FIRE is that young people will realize that so much of what is satisfying is the contributions that we make to the world. And it's not either or. You can be retired and make amazing contributions to the world. So, you know, if you do something that gets you able to retire early, and you choose that route, as long as here's the rub, as long as you make sure you maintain enough of a connection to what you want as a career, that should you have to go back, your you have not made yourself obsolete. Don't make yourself obsolete.

Jamila Souffrant 36:17

Yeah. And it's almost like people who are able to reach a level of financial independence and retire "early," the skill set, the determination that it takes for someone to do that, like earlier than the standard age of retirement 65. You think that that's a powerful person, which is why most people that I find that have retired earlier reach financial independence, like they're making more money than when they were kind of in their working years for someone else, because the skill sets and things that they've accomplished and the person they've become has allowed them to do that. And I want to like step back, because I know you do a lot of work with communities, who have long been locked out of like, the financial instruments, you know, communities of color and black people in this country to have levels of freedom that we're talking about. So, I want to discuss a bit more about how achievable financial independence is for the average person for you know, the average like black person listening. And not as just discouragement by any means, because I'm all about like, "Listen, if you think you can do something like go after it, no matter what your background, no matter who you are. " But sometimes I worry that, you know, I know that there's a blind spot, hence why I came into the space to share my story, because I was like, I know more people need to hear this from someone like me. But there's a blind spot I think, not only in the financial independence space, but in the personal finance space. Sometimes I think that the people who are listening to this episode or to this podcast or come to you for advice, are already at a privilege level. Now I'm not talking about like the white standard male privilege. I'm just talking about privilege to like have access to internet and to know that this is an option and that the people who really need the help, who are in poverty, the working class poor, don't are not able to access this yet, or don't have the...Can we talk about don't have the capacity to think about, and the luxury to think about maybe some of this stuff, because they're just trying to put food on the table. And so it's all bottled up, like I have so many questions around this, but one is the personal finance space, like, are we really reaching the people who need the help like with our content? And you know, with what I'm doing, or is it more like you reach who you can and then go back to help people who maybe are not at this level yet?

Saundra Davis 38:32

So I would say yes and no, you all are reaching folks, the influencers, the edutainment, the financial bloggers, and all the things that you all are doing. Yes, you're reaching folks who have felt left out of what they call traditional, which I hate, traditional financial planning. The rub for me is that you're often reaching them with tips and bits and pieces of information. The problem with that is that everybody, irrespective of your income and wealth needs a comprehensive financial plan. Every single person who is walking on this earth needs a comprehensive plan, because here's the thing. We have a financial life cycle. And there are some very standard things that happen in those life cycles. And we have to prepare differently for each one of those scenarios, each one of those situations. And the downside is when we only focus on one aspect, I hear a lot of people say, "Oh, well, what investment should I do? Or, you know, what should I do about my rollover IRA?" That's not a that's not a just give me the answer conversation. That's okay. So when you think about your total financial picture, where does this roll, where does this IRA or this 401k where does this fit in? How much emergency money do you have set aside? How many options do you have to continue to build your retirement? So I think yes, you all are absolutely reaching folks who otherwise would not have this information, even with the privilege of as you as you so aptly say, access to the internet, even knowing this is a thing, right? Even knowing that this is a thing is privileged, right. And there's an entire group of people who don't either have access. And as you also mentioned, the bandwidth. And this is why scarcity, that book, Scarcity is such a big deal because our mental capacity to use the prefrontal cortex for executive functioning executive thinking is hindered when we're just trying to stay alive, right? So whatever that trauma is, you know, driving, cooking, walking while black, any of those things I mean, so that's why when people make comments, like like, "Oh, you know, you know if they only if they would just and if they would just stop." About poor people that shaming and blaming and all this stuff that happens even in the communities where they're supposed to be healthy, in the nonprofit sector where they're supposed to be this compassionate care, there's still the abuse. The emotional abuse, with "Why aren't you doing better?" Somehow the problems of the racial and the income and wealth gap is your fault as an individual, right? And so all of that stuff exists. So the thing that that I would say is that the influencers, the the bloggers, all of that, those of you who do like what you do, of making sure that there are people of all all along the professional spectrum, who talk about estate planning, who talk about investing, who talk about tax, who talk about career, as long as you all are filling it out with experts who go deep in each of those fields, then you're going to be able to offer something that then here's the thing. You never know who the folks you reach, who they are reaching. So I wouldn't minimize the impact that you all can have. I think that this is huge to be able to get on a podcast when you're cooking or driving to work or taking a walk or whatever, and to be able to hear some of the folks that you bring on, right? And then the key is, how do you share it with the people who you care about. And so as far as folks who don't have access, that's a lot of work to do. That's a lot of work we still have yet to do. And most of us who are in the nonprofit sector, that's where we focus a lot of our time. So all of the coaches I train, 90% of those coaches for doing work with low and moderate income clients or the working poor. And so that's why I keep my foot in that space. You know, I trained financial planners who are working with high net worth individuals. I'm probably one of the few folks in this field, who work with people all along the income spectrum from homeless to houses all over the world. So it's really important to be able to do that. But it is a specific skill set you know? Because if I'm talking to you about budgeting, and you're trying to get a roof over your head, I'm not helping you. I'm not helping you. And actually, I'm even harming you, because now you're feeling the shame. So I do think that, you know, there's absolutely value in what influencers can bring, what financial content providers can bring. I think where I get a little worried, is with the idea of the tip, the tips, because I think tips can be dangerous. I think the tips can also cause people to think that they know more than they know. And, and I think that tips with context is really important. And I try to hang out with those of you who do more of that, you know, I tend to stay away from the idea of, you know, I'm going to drop this one thing in on you that changes your financial direction. I just don't think that that's true. I do think though, we have to be bold. You know, we have to be bold and saying, look, no matter what limitations you have had, like you said, if you think it, you can do it now, as a financial expert, and I am. I know a lot. I know more financial stuff that I will ever use. But that doesn't mean a thing, if I can't reach you where you are. And I think that's what you all do magically, right? I can't do what I do, and no financial expert can, if you can't reach the folks you're trying to reach. So I think that you know, and I talk a lot about the financial continuum that goes from, you know, education, to counseling and coaching and planning and even to therapy. And I think that what is important is that the role that that you all play in that continuum, is that you invite people into something that they have been left out of before.

Jamila Souffrant 44:58

Yeah, and you let them them know about the other places. It's not like this is and I always say that this is not your one stop shop, right? Like I it's like I provide you a buffet of ideas, thoughts, experts, my journey, but there's deeper work that needs to be done. And the other thing I want to mention about financial independence. So when I started this journey, and I was listening to all these other podcasts and blogs, but that was definitely a blind spot. It was like financial independence or bust. That's the goal. And that's it. And I was just like, "Well, you know, I know a lot of people depending on their starting point, while I want to encourage them to reach for that, I call it a moon goal of financial independence, realistically, first, start the starting point for some people, like you're ignoring so many other factors about what it takes to reach that goal." And so I do think it's really important that it's not just like, oh, make more, spend less, and save and invest and there you go. There's, there's so many like steps within those things. And it's not just the steps in action, it's the mindset. It's the habits. It's like, you listen to this podcast, you turn it off, and then it's the real world, right? Like, in your real environment, and you're just like, "oh", like you're not as motivated anymore. So all those things like lead into, like someone's journey and what they're experiencing and how it impacts what they do.

Saundra Davis 46:18

Yeah, so I do think it's certainly achievable. I think. I think there's also the understanding, and I guess this is me and my coaching perspective, right, you mentioned that, you know, for you fire was I want to be able to retire from the job that I hate. And so what I would offer is that, what coaching is about is, what are you moving toward? Rather than what you're going away from, right? And so when you think about and I know not necessarily for you personally, because I know that you've done a lot of work in this space already. But for people who have not, rather than focus on, "well, I know I don't want that." It's okay to know that, I'm not saying don't know that. But what you want to construct is that this is what I want my life to look like, right? And when you when you frame it that way, it is a lot easier to make choices that align with that. And then the milestones and the timeline, a financial goal without a date and a dollar amount is a wish. I don't care how you cut it. Right? So, yes, you might have that moon goal right of fire and retirement or retiring early. And what are the milestones you can put in place as you go? So that you can celebrate the successes along the way, and be able to really know if the road that you're on is the road that's going to be satisfying for you. And I think one of the main things that people don't realize when we're younger, and I know I surely didn't, is that life's different, at 50+. It's different and what you need is different. What you want is different. And your ability to you know, there's a reason that you hear so much more about millennials than you do boomers, right? Because the world begins to kind of treat us differently on the tail end of our lives when we have lived more years then we're going to live. And so when you're looking at all of those things, you want to think about not just your 35 year old self or your 40 year old self for retirement, what is your 80 year old self, right? What is your 70 year old self gonna need? What is your 65 year old self gonna need? And so when you're thinking about financial independence, what does it mean for those decades as well? Not just the, I want to be able to have now. Well, I will say and my partner used to say this all the time, our world is completely backwards. What we should be doing is giving y'all a front loading y'all with a bunch of money when you're young. So you can go out and have all of the experiences and then come back to work when you're 45. You know a lot more, you've experienced a lot more, you've got a lot more to contribute to the workforce. So go out and play till you're 45 and then go to work.

Jamila Souffrant 48:58

Oh my gosh, I love that. I love that theory.

Saundra Davis 49:00

Yeah, I mean, it would be just a much better world. Y'all could make all your babies, you could do all of those things. Just hang out, live your life, grow, learn, build communities, make families, and then 45, your kids are grown, and come on back to work.

Jamila Souffrant 49:18

I'd never heard of that. Like, and I've never heard of it that way. And I actually think that would be brilliant.

Saundra Davis 49:23

It kinda woud, it kinda would. It would solve a lot of problems.

Jamila Souffrant 49:26

Oh my gosh, now I have some things to think about. So I don't know if this is too heavy of a question to end on, but I know you work and you're very aware as you know, money. It's not just like, finance is as much political as it is...like there are so many parts to the individual and their money like that are stemming from systematic issues, political issues or policies in place. And I came across something and I'm just like, I'm almost afraid to go deeper. Because what it might mean for what I think about financial independence in the system, but that we promote right like that people of color, black people have more economic access and freedom. And there's this idea though, that the system in general, though, like capitalism, in general, it's hard to change it from within, you know? So my thing is like, let's individually have more options, and then collectively, we'll have more options. And then we can make change, right? Like that, to me is like financial independence. Like you want to make sure you're good. So you can make sure your family is good. And then you make sure your community is good. But then you're operating in a system that's already messed up, right? That's not really built for you to succeed. So what are your ideas on that? Are we trying to make something work that was never made for us to work in?

Saundra Davis 50:49

Yeah. So so you bring up important points and in your wisdom, and I do think it is that. I do think it is that in your wisdom, you pointed out some of the most important aspects right? We are in a system that was not designed for us, never made space for us. Our role in this system was as a commodity. So we are talking about how do we go from being property to owning property? How do we go from being the generators of wealth for others, to generating wealth for ourselves and we have to understand, there are systemic issues that are not going to be fixed in a year you know? And this is the thing Jamila that I'm grappling with right now as we go through the what what 2020 has meant for us. I am 60 years old this year. I have been having this conversation since I was 17 years old. So think about that for a minute. The decades of having this same conversation. And the rub is, we don't really have a choice, because it's not like we're going to pick up and go back to the continent, and it's going to be better there. Colonization was detrimental to Africans in the Diaspora and on the Continent. And so we don't have any choice than to make this work. The only way this will work, the only way it's going to change is if we own our own individual choices, our family, and collective and rebuild our communities, right? The hard part is, there's enough dangled in front of us to think, "oh, if we just get educated, if we just do this we'll be accepted and entered into this other realm" that I don't believe in my lifetime. Now, let me say, I think you young folks are kicking butt right now. So I think that y'all can do something differently than what we were able to do in the 60-70s, right? But the thing you will will have to watch out for is what happened for us in the 80s. And what happened from my generation in the 80s, you either made it, you got to BMW move to the suburbs, right? Or you ended up in the crack epidemic, right? And sure, there's a lot of stuff that happened in between. But those things were designed. Those were designed. Getting a few of us through the glass ceiling, getting a few of us through the cracks, that's by design. The only way this is going to change is if we have our own wherewithal to build our own communities, keep those black dollars circulating in the black community, and the ability to defend our wealth. And that's going to be a tough one. You know, I know you hear about I know you've learned about Black Wall Street and all of those other things. This has to be a different solution. Because we see what happened with that. And I would love to say that I think it's different now but I just I just don't I'm sorry that I can't say something that is more inspiring than that. I don't think that there is any desire whatsoever for a system of white supremacy to give that up. It looks better than it has looked in my lifetime. I hope that you all hold on to your joy. Don't let anybody steal your joy. Have your joy in the fight. Take care of yourselves in the fight, hold your babies, take care of your mamas, take care of your family, do all of that and have your joy in the midst of the fight. Because the fight will continue, right? It's going to continue. There's no other way. And you don't want to put your joy on hold, waiting for some happily ever after. There ain't no Prince Charming in this story. We are going to have to have this battle. We're going to have to have it head on. We're going to have to continue to have it, because little bits of, "Oh we're gonna put $112 billion into the..." Sorry. If you look at what slavery and enslavement of Africans in this country built, and the amount of money that it built, I'm sorry, your one billion ain't going to get it. And so we are going to have to continue until Africans in the Diaspora and particularly Africans in this country, have equity, have equity and it does have to start with us. Because we can't make that system recognize the need for change, if we don't do it first for ourselves. But it's not I mean, some people say, you know, and you know, you've heard me say, You're not gonna individually close the wealth gap, you're not going to individually close the income gap. There's nothing you and I are going to do as two black women, that's going to change that system. But we do have to change what we do. We have to change what we think and we have to change how we behave with each other around money.

Jamila Souffrant 55:55

Powerful. Thank you so much, Saundra, that was amazing. Wow. So okay, please let everyone know where they can find out more about your work and what you do.

Saundra Davis 56:03

Wonderful. Thank you. So my organization is Sage Financial Solutions. We train financial coaches. And I'm actually right now working on an initiative to get more black people, particularly black me. There's a lot of black women in our coaching program. But I'd love to see more black men. Our website is SageFinancialsolutions.org. I'm on IG as sage. money, sage.money. And also on Facebook and Twitter as Sage Money, so people can follow me there. As you can see, I don't pull any punches. You get to a certain stage in life where you say what you got to say, you know, I tell people all the time, I don't know how many years I'm going to be around. So I got to say everything I got to say now. Oh, but I think you're I just want to say, I think you're doing an amazing job. And I'm so proud of you. And I just really encourage you to continue to take good care of yourself. Take good care of those young folks that you are so graciously raising to be wonderful human beings in the world and keep doing what you do. It's a wonderful thing to see.

Jamila Souffrant 57:04

Okay, Journeyers, I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Saundra. You can tell that she is passionate about her work, especially in the community and building assets for us, you know, the people who need it the most, you know? And if you're listening to this and you feel inspired to really get your finances in order, maybe you've been delaying it, maybe you're inspired, but you haven't done anything just yet. I hope that this conversation helps you see that one is never too late to get started. And two, that you can become the master of your own money. And I love that what I do, if I'm doing it the right way, is that not that I am telling you what to do. I'm not giving you any power with your money. You have the power within you already. You have it! It's just understanding how to tap into it and reach it and use it. And so I hope, as I always do, that this content helps you figure that out. I hope that I can continue to give you the tools, the education, the resources, the motivation to get it done because you deserve it. You deserve everything that you're dreaming of.

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Transcribed by https://otter.ai