Jamila Souffrant 0:00

You're listening to the Journey to Launch podcast How to Transition from Corporate America to Entrepreneurship, Pivot and Business and All the Other Things They Don't Tell You About Owning a Business with Tammeca Rochester of Harlem Cycle.

Intro 0:17

Welcome to the Journey to Launch podcast with your host Jamila Souffrant, as a money expert who walks her talk, she helps brave journeyers like you get out of debt, save, invest, and build real wealth. Join her on the journey to launch to Financial Freedom

in

Unknown Speaker 0:37

three

Jamila Souffrant 0:44

Hey hey hey, Journeyers, Welcome to the Journey to Launch podcast. I'm so excited that you are here. Buckle up we are taking off to financial freedom and independence. Now today on the podcast, I have Tammeca Rochester and let me tell you something. This was such an amazing conversation if I don't say so myself. I think that if you are an entrepreneur, and aspiring entrepreneur doing something on the side, that you will get a lot from this even if you're not any of those things. If you just enjoy a good conversation, a real conversation about what it's like to go after your dreams. You're going to enjoy this.

So let me first tell you a little bit about Tammeca, Tammeca, Rochester is owner and founder of Harlem Cycle, Harlem's first and only indoor cycling studio. In 2016, she decided to turn her passion for fitness and open Harlem fitness, when she was looking to get back in shape and find a workout that will put her in a positive frame of mind. After exploring the various workout, she was drawn to indoor cycling, and then eventually opened up her own cycling studio. Now I love this conversation with Tammeca because she really gets into what it was like to come up with that this idea what she really didn't plan to have and do and how she transition from corporate America to full time entrepreneurship. And within that time period, even up to this date, there's a lot that hasn't been happening, obviously COVID and having to pivot her cycling studio, what does that look like? How did she start the city? How did she get the money to do that? All the ups and downs of entrepreneurship, we are talking about it. So it really did feel like I was talking to a friend about what it's like to run a business because as you all know, I'm in my own entrepreneurship journey. So I found that this was very, very helpful. So I hope it's helpful to you too.

First, a word from our sponsor DCU, also known as Digital Federal Credit Union. Now at their core credit unions were founded on the philosophy of people helping people for individuals that might find themselves part of the underbanked or underserved communities. Credit Unions offer individuals a safe place to manage their finances, or help fund purchases as an alternative to other financial service providers like payday lenders, at DCU. The credit union places an enhance focus on financial education by offering learning modules on key financial topics like budgeting, saving for the unexpected building credit and much more. DCU also offers a secured credit card that could help individuals establish or improve their credit by borrowing securely against their savings balance. To learn more, check out dcu.org and stick around to the end of the show for a new segment called the DCU money tips of the week, where I'll be sharing tips to help you save and manage your money so you can reach your goals.

If you want the episode Show Notes for this episode, go to journeytolaunch.com or you can click the description of wherever you listen to this episode to get the full episode show notes. Now if you are a new listener to the podcast or OG journeyer, I've created a jumpstart guide to help you on your journey to financial freedom. It includes the top episodes to listen, to the stages to go through to reach financial freedom, resources to help you and so much more. Get it for FREE by texting launch to 33777, text launch to 33777 or go to journeytolaunch.com/jumpstart to get your guide for free right now. Okay, let's hop into the episode.

Okay, journey is super excited because I have on Tammeca Rochester on the podcast and she is the owner founder of Harlem Cycle and I was really intrigued by to make a story because I just feel like you know she's an entrepreneur and not an actual entrepreneur that has like a location based physical business which can be a little bit different from what like what I'm doing which is like more informational based and online. And I just I know so many you guys like want more possibilities want to see what things are available to you in the universe and in the world. So like why not bring on someone who has experience leaving corporate america, starting their own business and a fitness business at that, like so many things I want to get into with you Tammeca. I'm really excited to have you here. Welcome to the podcast.

Tammeca Rochester 5:06

Thank you. Thank you so much. I'm super super excited.

Jamila Souffrant 5:10

So first tell me um, so you started Harlem Cycle, which is a indoor cycling Well, it what it started as an indoor cycling fitness studio. So tell me more about like that journey because I always in my, in my like, I guess previous or like future life, I always thought I'd be like some sort of fitness instructor doing something. So how did you like, decide that that's what you wanted to do.

Tammeca Rochester 5:32

So that's funny that you said that because nowhere in my life that I ever think that I would be. So at no point did I ever see myself in fitness. I actually started my career as an engineer. But I always you know, I was always very active growing up and always love to like ride my bike outside, I grew up in Atlanta, so you know, streets of Atlanta and safer riding bikes. And that's what we did as kids. And then as an engineer, I decided to make the bold switch and switch into marketing. And when I was switched into marketing, like my stress level, just increased 20,000%. And then I realized I needed a release, I needed something that was just for me some form of self care. And I had just had my son at the time, so I'm struggling with a newborn baby. And so I just really needed some something for myself, and someone told me about indoor cycling, tried it and loved it, love the music, love the vibe, love the energy, and just was really making that I made that my workout. And so as a point, like even even as it became my workout, it was so far to see myself at the front of the room, was just so far out of my comfort zone, I just would have never imagined myself leading a class there. But you know, time reveals itself to you, and you kind of realize what your passion is. And, and so you know, though I'm in fitness, my passion is is always been about helping people to discover who they really are, and getting closer to who they want to be. And so that to me, is just manifested through fitness.

Jamila Souffrant 7:02

Yeah, I love that I love so you said you started out as an engineer, yes. And then like change careers. And, you know, at the baseline of of it all, I feel like we all have these things that we're kind of interested in or don't know, that we're interested in, right. And maybe it's a hobby or just a side thing that interests us. But it's just nice to see that like even if you're this thing, you know, like if you're in a box or you know, whether you put yourself there someone put you there that literally though you can, you can do anything.

Tammeca Rochester 7:30

You can take that lid off and jump right on outside of that box and do whatever you want to do. And I've done it, I've done it now this is the third career switch. So from engineer to brand manager to now fitness.

Jamila Souffrant 7:42

Okay, I want to talk a little bit about that switching up careers. How did you know it was the time to make that switch? Because there's so many people right now who are listening on their way to creating that life they love and financial independences and they're like, I don't know, if I want to do this. How do you How did you switch first, from engineer to brand manager to this? Like, how did you know it was right? The right thing to do.

Tammeca Rochester 8:03

So if you know I'm gonna lie, it wasn't easy, it's a scary thing to do is very scary to leave something that you know, you're good at. You know how to do it. You know, people recognize who you are in that field, and to go into a completely new territory, it's scary. It's nothing to take lightly. So whoever is in that position, I feel you, it's not easy. But for me, it was, you know, when I looked down, I was like, well, I like to do is just try, right, you know, having that that idea that? Well, if I try and fail, I can always still be an engineer, there's no big deal. And so to me, was the risk was bigger than the reward. So for me, the reward was, I tried, I started found myself a new a new thing that I could do, and I switched careers and loved it. The risk was, I don't love it, but then I could just go back to being what I was before an engineer.

Jamila Souffrant 8:56

Right, right. And I think that is such an important way to look at it things in your mind is that like, you won't always say like, you know, you won't die like you know, the immediate thing is that you think you're gonna die because it's like if something fails and the embarrassment of it all, like it feels like that, like there's so many emotions that then turn physical to how you feel about what's happening, and taking a risk. But literally, like once you can wrap your head around, like what is the worst case scenario and I would say something if you're having this decision or thinking about this, like you don't want to regret the risk not taken like you know that if you're in your life right now and you're like unhappy and there's something calling you for something more and you have the you know, something to leap off it doesn't even have to be like super solid but something that you staying where you are is like if you can't see yourself and it's like more painful to stay where you are then to at least take that risk. It's time to do it.

Tammeca Rochester 9:46

Right. It's kind of a but you know, I think that always stuck in my mind was I would have to constantly tell myself, you're not that important, Tammeca. The embarrassment people will get over it in 30 seconds when something else happens like you're not that important that you switching and failing at a career will be what the whole world is talking about. No one's gonna care after, like 10 minutes.

Jamila Souffrant 10:05

Oh, I love that. I love that you said that because oftentimes too, like, even with, let's say leaving a job, even if like just say your you got a better opportunity. Because I've spoken to people, I've been in a situation where you feel like oh, but they need me, like, it's gonna be an issue for you, you're more upset or worried about letting other people down and then yourself. And when it's just like, these people are gonna live their lives, they're not really that worried about you.

Tammeca Rochester 10:30

Not I at all, and I left the company after 13 years, and literally in like, a day, they had replaced me. Like you. So it's like, we're not as important as we make ourselves out to be in these situations. And you know, I always tell people, like your job posting will be posted before your obituary is up. So think about that they care more about that job than you and your life.

Jamila Souffrant 10:54

Oh, yes. Alright, so I want to know how you like then transitioned or new at the point, wherever you made that decision? Like, when did you decide, Okay, I'm gonna open a studio like I like cycling, I like going to the classes. But now I think I'm going to open a studio because sometimes, like, if you have like a side hustle idea, or something you want to do, like you can even go in it without even knowing, kind of like kind of what you did. Or you're like, you know what, I'm going to start a studio, like, at what point did you make the decision that you're going to go in all the way.

Tammeca Rochester 11:22

So I'm also on those people that makes very quick decision. Like, if I feel it, I pursue it. And if it doesn't happen, then I just move on to the next thing. So literally one day out for a jog. And I see like this assigned for open building, and I was like, Oh, this would be so amazing. If there was a cycling studio here, I could just walk to it, I could have my workout come right back home, like so it could be to me, um, and it was it was really about what will be convenient for my lifestyle, because there was no cycling studios in Harlem, and I had to go downtown for cycling studios. Or I would just take a class at the local YMCA that had its own ups and downs and its own mess. But I wasn't really satisfied with that experience. And the downtown studios, I wasn't totally in love with them, you know, the music is different. You know, many times I'm the only minority person in there, I'm the only person with hips and curves, like it was it was just a lot to always, you know, have to like navigate those two worlds. And so as I'm out for this run, I'm like, ooh, be so good. And there's a cycling studio here. And then I literally call the number on the thing was like, Hey, I'm just looking at this signage to know how much this space cost per month, they told me the number and I was like, that seems like a lot. Okay. And then as I'm talking to the realtor, he was like, Well, what, what are you trying to do? I was like, Well, you know, I'm looking to start a cycling business. Now he totally me brushed me off, it was like, do you have a business? Like, what's your plan? I was like, I'm just, I'm putting together my financials.

Jamila Souffrant 12:49

Did You Know Before You said that, that you were gonna say...

Tammeca Rochester 12:56

No, literally out for a run and was like, Ah, this would be perfect. There was no point before that, that I was like, I want to start a cycling studio. Literally no point before that. And that was like an early November morning, I'm out for late October, early November.

Jamila Souffrant 13:11

What year was this?

Tammeca Rochester 13:12

This was 2015. Okay. And I'm like, Okay, and so but as I talked to the realtor had his like, negativity, I was like, Okay, I see what you're doing. Let me come around my business plan. And so like a week later plowed because, you know, I'm one of those people, once I get focused on something, it has to be done, like, I couldn't focus on anything else for that week, put through the business plan, use the numbers, and he'd given me for my financial statements and was like, This isn't, not doable. I work for Colgate palmolive company, I was head of the I was senior brand manager for their one of their top brands. I was like, if they've trusted me this company has trusted me with a billion dollar brand, I can surely make a little tiny brand in my own neighborhood, I could surely at least try. So from the you know, that standpoint, that that was that confidence from being able for me to switch before that I switched from engineering to marketing, and they trusted me with this huge brand, that I could at least start my own little tiny one. And so from there just kept pushing, um, I signed my lease in February 2016.

Jamila Souffrant 14:17

At that location, or somewhere else?

Tammeca Rochester 14:19

No, somewhere else. So then I, we signed the lease, I signed the lease over first and then April 2, we had our first class.

Jamila Souffrant 14:30

So this is 2016.

Tammeca Rochester 14:32

Yeah,

Jamila Souffrant 14:33

Okay. Questions about opening the studio now and like the capital to start this. So at this point, you're working full time still. And you decide, Alright, let me run the numbers and see what I can do. So how like, Can you share like the startup cost to actually getting this physical location?

Tammeca Rochester 14:48

Yeah. So startup costs are like, whatever your rent is, you need about four times that just to put down on the space, that's just that's money. It's gonna be gone. You're never gonna see it again. It's gone, but because they can buy it. So whatever if we're ever looking for a storefront, it's whatever that cost is that monthly cost is times four, because they, they want to deposit they want first and last month, and it's usually four times your rent. And then from there, you have to do some level of a build out the place comes exactly how you want it. And so you have to find contractors, that you can trust, notice the word trust, because contractors sometimes are a little shady with these numbers. And so from my space, like my contractors, it was upwards of $60 $70,000, just to build out the space. And that's just standing floors and painting that's not buying equipment and bikes and a desk and things like that. That's just literally painting the floors and the ceilings and making it to standards of what we need. And then from there, you have to think about your equipment costs and how much it is for your equipment. But you know, for anyone, these costs seem daunting, but you really have to pull back and say, What do I really need? as the years have gone on? Things have gotten better at the studio, like more pictures come up on the wall? like do I need 1000 pictures on the wall, when we first opened? No. But as the time went on, we've added different things to make it more inviting and more warm. But you do have to be careful, there's that fine balance of first impression. Like when people come into my space they want I wanted them to be able to be like, This space is amazing. It's inviting. Let me tell all my friends about it. So you know those little things. And then there's ways of doing things that cost like if you go to your house, like I do and stock up at Marshall's or Home Goods to decorate your home, there's probably something there you could probably purchase to for your business to kind of make it warm and inviting as well. So those kind of costs I had to factor in. Now, where did this money come from?

Jamila Souffrant 16:42

Yeah, that's, that's my next question. So all right, so I'm like trying to keep you so you're saying maybe this was like $80 to $100,000? To start?

Wow. Okay. And so when it came to, and I want to like also peel back to where you were personally with your personal finances at that point, like if you had outside debt? I mean, you already said you tap into your 401k did you like take? Did you drain your 401k? Completely? Or you just took some?

Tammeca Rochester 18:09

No, no. So another thing, I am also the most frugal person in the absolute world, I do not spend money ever unless I have to, like 10 years from now you'll see me the same sweatshirt, because that's just me. So my savings was already you know, I had already from 30 years of working in corporate America, my savings is pretty significant outside of that outside of my 401k. So my 401k was, you know, I use a bit of it, but not as much as the rest is just from savings.

Jamila Souffrant 18:40

Okay, and so I accept because there are people who, because I've seen this as an investment, right? It's a different type of investing, like investing in a business. But there are people who have debt still right and so or their personal finances, like they actually have to stress that to create the business. But then, you know, you have like a platform like mine that talks about being debt free, and all these things. And if certain people wait to become completely debt free, like outside of a mortgage or student loan, like then they may never realize or act on a dream. So I don't ever want to say like, Don't ever take the risk. And you know, like, I'm not want to be like okay, just jump into your 401k like I'm not like about that either. But I just find like some people that I whether it's from other, you know, stories of other people, like I hear like that they take this risk, and sometimes it is necessary, because there's no other way that you would have been able to like, make it work.

Tammeca Rochester 16:49

Yeah. Okay, to start. Now this money came from my pockets that were just, it's terrible. But you know, as a, as a business as someone who was not in business before, as someone who only use I use only my 501 sec, my 401 K, I use my savings, my fiance helped put in portion of it. And he's been you know, he was the backbone to me helping because there was many months that you know, your first year, you're not making payroll, like couldn't even help pay for my instructors for the month. And so he put it the other half. Now, did I try to not use my money? Absolutely. I want to bang presented my business plan game, you know, and I've always had that with someone who has I have over 700 when it comes to credit score, and it just wasn't available to me. Banks were not willing to loan to me. And even small institutions were like, We don't know you. So it was very difficult at first to find that funding. So I use my savings and my fiance savings to get us started.

No, no, and I even put things on my credit card, which is not the best way to do things. But thank heavens, here we are five years later, and I've been able to pay that off. But you think about what's good debt and bad debt. Right? Everyone expects you to have student loans and student loans will be with everyone. No matter how much money you have for the rest of your life like that. That's debt as long as you're managing it and paying it. So I do not suggest that you spend all of your money trying to pay off student loans when you have this big amazing business idea that you could be developing that could help you in the long run pay it off. And so you know, you have to look at what, to me it's good debt versus bad now, putting on your credit card bad debt, I would not recommend it. It just rates ridiculous. But in the end, I that was what I had to do to get us where we are. But I believe I believed in the dream. And I held on to my full time job. So I didn't immediately quit. So I held himself full time job to pay down some of that debt in that first year, so that we could be in a good place.

Jamila Souffrant 20:32

Right, right. Yeah, I think yeah, it's so important, like everyone's tools and resources that they have available are going to be different. And to like, You sounded this thing to if you're serious about this, and you literally are going to go all in, then the risk is necessary to be taken.

Tammeca Rochester 20:47

Yeah.

Jamila Souffrant 20:48

But if you know you're one of those people. And it's funny, because you could definitely be one of people who've tried things and failed not a problem if you want to try something else. But you got to really understand if you're going to if you're going to tap into 401 K's, or bar from family and friends, like you have to be serious about whatever it is you're about to do that you're going to put your all into it.

Tammeca Rochester 21:05

Yeah. And you know, before I even started Harlem Cycle, I reached out to four friends that I've known to life. So first one was my best friend, who I've known since second grade, my sister, my best friend from college, and then someone who I've known since my professional career, and we sat down and literally did a SWOT analysis of me. And those are people who have known me through different phases of my life, the good the bad, the ratchet and everything else. And and know who I am, and are not afraid to tell me who I am. So if at any point they hadn't, like, Girl, you know, you don't ever finish or complete anything. I would have walked away from this idea and be like, Okay, well, maybe there's other things I can put my savins towards. So I think you have to also make sure you know who you are. And ask the people closest to you as that reminder of what those strengths are, what those weaknesses are. Because there's been plenty of ideas that I've had. And then my friends have been like, but you don't like to do that. You right, you right, I don't I really don't like to do that. So I that's not the best idea for me.

Jamila Souffrant 22:08

Right, I love that. Okay, so you then you start the studio in 2016. You open doors. You've already but you're still working full time. Yeah. How did it go? Like how did you market it? How did people start to learn about it? What was that first year business like cause I know, that was like the roughest part to try to get a profitable,

Tammeca Rochester 22:24

oh my gosh, that was literally the well, I will say the most stress of my life. But 2020 seems to be bigger than that. So it was like I gained 40 pounds. In the first year we opened, like, I it was crazy, I gained more weight. In the first year, I opened the Fitness Studio, then when I was pregnant, the stress just takes over your body. And you just it's it's a horrible thing. But it was just very stressful. You know, I was waking up at five o'clock in the morning, at the time, my son was four, four and a half, we come to the studio open up, let the instructor come and teach class and be run to daycare, drop them off. And then I make it downtown to work and come back to supply, outdoor back to the studio. And this went on for a complete year, to the point that it took such a physical toll on me. And it just it also wasn't physically, you can sustain it. I managed to sustain it for a year. But like physically, it wasn't sustainable. That was when I really realized I have to either make the leap or I'm gonna kill myself trying to live in two different worlds at the same time.

Jamila Souffrant 23:29

So how did you prepare to make the leap? What did you do?

Tammeca Rochester 23:33

I move quickly. So it was in like, early November again of 2016. So literally a year later, from when I had the idea for Harlem Cycle, we made our first $10

Jamila Souffrant 23:46

Wait, you made your first profit like so after paying expenses. This is the first time you made a profit.

Tammeca Rochester 23:51

First time we started planning April, I didn't see $10 until November, I paid all the bills for the month, then my payroll everything's taken care of all the orders in for water supplies, whatever we need. And it was like $10 now by oh *bleep*, We're rich.In business, there's so many it's such an emotional roller coaster. And you know, you go up you have ups and downs, there's days that you're going to be like, we're never gonna make any money. Like this isn't working like, you know, it's just, it's just such a roller coaster. And when we got that high about $10 I was like, oh, we doing this. It just was the renewed sense of and gave me that extra energy to keep pushing and keep going on. And from there it was like 100% like my sleepless nights became worth it and just really pushing us out. And so to get our names, name out there from the beginning. It was really all very grassroots marketing, you know, started Instagram started with five followers. One of them was my sister and my mama and then from there the instructors started following, they started sharing posts to to help kind of build the business. I walked every single coffee shop, every store in Harlem and handed out flyers to put it on their desktops to get to clients. I went to local schools and said, Hey, can you give this to all the teachers? So it was very grassroots at first. And every time clients came in, I was like, do you want me to take a picture so you can share with your friends on social social media, tag us.

And that actually was the biggest push that helped grow our social media, but it also, you know, help grow people physically coming into the space. So it was very grassroots at first. But those those things actually, I think, are how you have to start when it comes to in person businesses, you have to be able to talk to your customers, you have to be able to, to have them share because people people rely on word of mouth more than me telling you how great we are.

Jamila Souffrant 25:52

Right, And I assume you have to be a people person to have an in person. Because you have to be always on and pleasant and or your hire or you know, someone has to do customer service, you're not hiring that person up front, and you're the face of the business. People want to talk to you and see you.

Tammeca Rochester 26:06

Yes, absolutely. And so, you know, I find myself to be a people's person. But I've also consider myself to be like shy. So I don't necessarily always like talking about myself. That's something outside of my comfort zone. I've had to like share on social media who I am, who is Tammeca, why she opened this video. And to me, it still feels a little weird to like, talk about myself on social media. But it's something as a business owner, I had to like jump past that comfort zone, because people want to know who they're spending their money with, and what they're supporting.

Jamila Souffrant 26:35

Yeah, and I think that's interesting, like dynamic of being an entrepreneur and like the level of success you want to attain because you know, what I do, I want to be successful without anyone knowing who I am. And I can just like walk in the street. No one knows, like me, like, no one knows my business or how my kids look. Yes. And I do believe it's a way to do that. But now with social media thrown into the mix, people want to know you because you know, the concept for your cycling business. There are other cycling and fitness tools. Right, right. So people want to also be connected to you. And I find that in the personal finance space too. Like, I can just throw up like random just quotes, which is fine. But I feel like people aren't really connected when they really are a journeyer. And connected, it's because like they're connected to like my voice. And kind of my personal story within and obviously they're, you're the focal point. Like they're the ones that are trying to I'm helping them reach their goals, but they want to relate to you also as like the person. And so you have to share you have to be vulnerable.

Tammeca Rochester 27:28

It is such a it's such an interesting dynamic, right. It's such a crazy dynamic to me to be like, Here I am I am Tammeca, like what are you sit down, but you know, it gets you out of that comfort zone. And that's what really business is about is like taking the lead coming out of your comfort zone, sharing who you are with the world. And so that's something you have to be prepared to do.

Jamila Souffrant 27:49

Yeah, yes. Okay, so taking that leap. Now, how did you decide? So you said, You're like, I can't keep doing all these things. You got to give something up? How did you prepare then to leave? After that $10 profit, How did you say, Okay, I can like my family. And I can live from this.

Tammeca Rochester 28:04

So after, you know, that happened in November, which so the thing too, is we held that first class in April, that is literally the end of the fitness industry's best season. So January, February, March is like the booming months for us, like that's where you make all your money. That's where you get all your clients, you just got to hold them. So we opened up after everybody has already committed to New Year's resolution somewhere else and had already done all these things. So of course, our first couple of months were a little slow. But then in November, it was like that, that take of people now committing to wellness, they're getting ready for the holidays, they want to lose those extra pounds before they see their relatives. And then the January came and everyone wants to like get back their new year's resolution and they were choosing us as the place they wanted to do it. And so immediately that shift happened, we're like the clients just just immediately started picking up. So I didn't really prepare for it at all, like what the funds were starting to come in. And you know, as I said, I don't spend money. So anytime some profit came in, it was immediately put aside and saved, Instead of the working capital account, it was in a savings account for the business. Because if I was, I always forget, if you were able to make it happen with this little teeny bit of money, this is not the time to suddenly go out and start buying a whole new bike, like make it work and then save what you've gotten for bigger, you know, solid investments. And so it started coming in.

But also one thing that was happening at work was these passive and microaggressions were happening. So we were getting featured in The New York Times we've gotten the news and we were getting all this great press and my management were all like, you know, suddenly, I went from the number one performer on the team to Tammeca, we're not sure if you want to be here and I'm like why would you ask me that that seems like an odd statement to make, particularly when maybe yours was in like June and you loved me that and here we are in like November, December. And so you don't know if I want to be here. There are just very weird microaggressions happening and all those things, we're just continuing to pile up. And literally end of January 2017. I got my review, and it was not at all positive. And I was so heartbroken. I've been with the company for 13 years, I have never had a bad review. I've actually won awards for my performance at the company. And one of the three people who ever was able to transition from the engineering or from the science departments, to marketing, and to get a negative review, particularly when half of the year was so positive. But it came all after we started getting pressed and they knew about Harlem Cycle. I got that review on a Friday afternoon on that Monday, I came in and gave my notice of termination. I was like I can't do this anymore. I just literally that weekend. I was like I've been giving so much of myself. I just felt like I was betrayed. And so that Monday I just gave my resignation, though no actual build up to it.

Jamila Souffrant 31:09

Just you you're done. So I just want to go back a little bit because I The other thing about building something on the side is like whether you share it with your company or not keep it secret. I remember when I was doing Jounrey to Launch like it was no one knew about it. I had like this segment on CBS that I couple people saw my job. This is like before I left my job and they're like, I think I saw you on I'm like, Did you like I was like are you sure that's me. The security guard was like I saw you on TV.

Okay, so I didn't share what I was doing just because I talk about specifically to with like my content, like if you want to leave your job preparing to leave your job financial independence. So I felt like that was kind of, you know, directly letting them know that I was preparing to leave. And I didn't want like that to be something that held me back. So you kept did they not know about Harlem Cycle before the press?

Tammeca Rochester 31:56

No, I did not tell that. So the interesting thing is, so I told my engineering friends and my engineer, my old engineering managers that we're still friends with the engineering and marketing were very two different dynamics in the company. So engineering, we're a team, we love each other. We're like we work together, marketing was very cutthroat very design emphasis is very different. So my engineering people knew and we're still friends to this day marketing people, not so much. And so I didn't tell them. And they they found out through the news. And I was like hearing whispers like, what? Someone shared an article Tammeca that you were on the news. So you were sharing articles about me, but then cc me on it. And so it was like, Why are whispering about this? Just ask, and then it just you could just feel the difference in in the tension in meetings and things like that when I was there.

Jamila Souffrant 32:50

Yeah. Okay, so you got this. You said, I'm done. I'm gonna leave, you leave. But at this point did you have were you paying yourself from Harlem cycling?

Tammeca Rochester 32:59

No, at that point, I wasn't paying myself. But then I had to start. So I didn't start paying myself until after I left. But I still I still had two weeks of vacation left. So I gave my notice. I was like, and I want to take my vacation. So yeah, so that's two weeks left. So I, you know, I used that. And then, because I was previously a high performer in the company, I had different incentives that were I had already had accumulated over the years that if I ever left or if I was ever willing to leave, that I could cash in. And so I cashed those in and that helped me survive for about a month or two before I had to start paying myself from Harlem Cycle.

Jamila Souffrant 33:39

Do you feel like like, since you didn't have any other options, there was no other income, like from your job coming in that you ran Harlem Cycle differently? And like you became more profitable because of it?

Tammeca Rochester 33:50

Yes. So opportunities literally opened up the moment, I said, I can't do this anymore. And so there were things that I could say yes to like, we picked up a contract with teaching some teachers and educators that we couldn't have done before, because no one was available at 4:30 to teach these classes. And these this contract is literally like what take us to a different level, I was able to use the middays to meet with other fitness professionals and like learn more about the industry and increase like my knowledge of what's going on out there and network a little bit better. And literally, doors are just opening and opening and opening. Like in a month I saw a difference. And I was just like so to me, they were holding me back and I just didn't realize it.

Jamila Souffrant 34:34

Yeah. And it's weird. Like you won't know that until you take the leap. Right until you go all in right. Like you won't be able to experience like what opens up beyond right because your mind or you might be just blocked to the possibilities. But yeah, I think it's fascinating because some of the things that we're holding on to and we're like we're afraid to let go because it's stable or secure. And that could be even if you're a business owner, yeah, and there are opportunities that are stable, but you don't. Maybe you like them, you're like, what if I give this up then what? But like not understanding this, like I always say, like dating, I have a friend who dates someone, I think he's like trash and I'm just like, if you stopped dating him, I think you'll find someone better and like, No, I'm gonna hold on to it and then maybe someone else will come. I'm like, No,

Tammeca Rochester 35:14

he's blocking your blessing.

Jamila Souffrant 35:16

Right? So it's very, you know, I think that applies here too, even with your own, like, whatever it is that you're in right now. Letting Go, what's not serving you having the courage to do it is important, because then you'll realize, like, how much more is out there for you? So now you have more time to grow your business to build. And I'm gonna skip ahead just a little bit here. So at some point, so between 2017 that's when you left? Yes. Okay, so now you're you're profitable, you're running. Now you have one studio in Harlem, and it's doing well it's paying the bills, you're like,

Tammeca Rochester 35:48

it's doing well, or paying bills or getting recognition or getting clients, followings growing, everything is going smoothly,

Jamila Souffrant 35:56

and then 2020 happened.

Tammeca Rochester 36:02

And then 2020.

Jamila Souffrant 36:04

So I think it's important to talk about this too, because I think for 2020, it's been a whirlwind for everyone, whether you are have, you know, a regular corporate job or not, or have your own business, like it's impacting our health, or our mental health, physical health, just the way things are how we work as like, if you have kids, and you're working from home, or having to commute and figure out how that works. Your business, though, because it's a physical location, like my business, you know, at most of the things I did was online Anyway, there was some opportunities where, you know, I'm not speaking as much or going to conferences, but your business like as a physical business, I want to hear like, how it's been this transition, like to still be profitable, if you are and like, what's that been like for you?

Tammeca Rochester 36:47

So it's been hard, in summary, it's been hard, particularly as a cycling Studio One, I kind of don't own bikes, that's literally why they come to us because they don't have a bike at home. And to because they love the group atmosphere. So it was a little bit harder for us versus, you know, other fitness studios who did like HIIT training or things like that, where you're just taking the same workout of doing it at home. For us, we couldn't take the same workout into at home. And so I recognized that immediately when we shut down I was like, Okay, we have to like show the world that we can do something else. We, you know, all of our trainers, we all have multiple certifications and teach it other places and teach different things at other places. But here in Harlem, we're known for cycling. My first thing though, was we need to show our community that we care like this isn't just about making money during this time, because at the time when we shut down, it was so many unknowns, people were being laid off, people were being furloughed, like it was just so much unknown. And we were all literally scared for our lives. And so I was like, we need to show our clients that we care, and we need to take care of them. And so everything we did, within the first couple of weeks were you know, free and with the intent of just making sure clients knew that we were here for them, we provided grocery shopping list of things you should have at home, we had you know, someone who had been a COVID survivor on, like, what prescription medicines or things used to get from the drugstore to keep in your home so you are not running out to get these things in case COVID COVID does actually get your home, I went around and interviewed some of our Harlem restaurants to do cooking demos, so that our clients would have these cooking demos, because some of us haven't cooked in a while either. So we could have this stuff, we tapped a lot of our workouts and then provided them to clients. I was like, if you do nothing but these four little workouts everyday, you're good. And then we started doing like 15 minute online IG movement sessions just so we could like get up from our computers in the middle of day, move together as a community and and get back down. And so those will be initially pivoted to like just making sure we're taking care of people let them know we're here. And but you know, in the back of my mind, like, Okay,

so we've rented out our bikes, ship them to our clients homes. And so that was like one steady stream of income that we could have coming in.

Jamila Souffrant 39:07

And that was profitable, like even including the shipping cost. So give them to your client.

Tammeca Rochester 39:11

Yeah.

Jamila Souffrant 39:11

Oh, wow.

Tammeca Rochester 39:12

Yeah. So at the time, interesting thing is so you know, when all this happened, it was like shipping companies were like, yeah, we'll take care of it for you. No, it was they lower their rates to get as much business as possible. And so it was able to kind of ship those out. And they're still with the clients right now.

Jamila Souffrant 39:29

How many bikes did you ship out?

Tammeca Rochester 39:31

only 15

Jamila Souffrant 39:32

15. Okay, but you can charge like, you can do like a monthly rent fee.

Tammeca Rochester 39:36

Yeah, so we do a rental fee for that. And so that helps keeping that steady stream coming in. And then those contracts that I had with my teachers, I still have them we just teach a class virtually, which is great to see, again, that opportunity didn't become available until I quit and now it's what's helped sustain us. And then we immediately switched and put out a live stream schedule. Very limited because we you know, we used to teach 23/ 22 classes a week, and now we're down to just 9. But those nine, you know, it's the faithful we have some people who are still on their monthly packages who commit and are still taking those classes. And, you know, we recognize that it was gonna be harder for us than any other studio harder because I'm now telling you that what you love to do, which is cycling, I don't want you to do that right now, I want you to do something else.

Jamila Souffrant 40:22

So most of your classes, they're not all cycling now?

Tammeca Rochester 40:25

No, most of our classes are mat based. So you don't need any special equipment and, and so we, you know, want to make sure you do something at home. And even from that we now have we now have an at home subscription based program. We have over 80 workouts on there, we release new workouts weekly, we're adding cycling to the platform and this is also a monthly subscription program. So we've done a couple of pivots during this time, and the good thing is so I never wanted to be in the online space. I didn't want to be Peloton I didn't want to be Mirror. I love the community feel I love seeing people. I love the group, part of group fitness. But it's pushed me to move to another comfort zone. And it's pushed me to say hey, why why don't you want to be like Peloton and so now we're in that same at home subscription base space as well.

Jamila Souffrant 41:18

Right, And I mean, but you know and I think about the draw for peloton

I do have it's funny because I sister who's very into fitness Shaina, and I like she's into fitness. She was like, next step for her cuz she teaches fitness stuff too. And she's doing things online. And like in my head, like, again, I'm into fitness and I stopped with the kids, but I'm like, one day maybe I'll be a Peloton instructor, but like, I just felt like in general, like the difference or the pull for people who would want to like join, like, what you're doing is one of the physical aspect of it, right, like the community part. And the convenience and I think also the goodwill, right. It's a community based like business, like this is one of our own, who has started something for us. And is like, you know, giving back to the community, I think that differentiates you from like the big names doing this stuff. So with like, Alright, so you're transitioning, you're pivoting. What about like your rent, right? I know, one of the biggest things is like commercial rent, like, you know, a lot of people couldn't pay. So how have you navigated that?

Tammeca Rochester 42:23

So I'm still paying and have been paying rent since March even being closed, I also become really proficient at grant writing. So I literally plow through at least two to three grant applications a week. And the good thing is these grants were not out there before, like these grants are just because of this timing. So we have to take advantage of this timing now. And so I know, we've been able to secure a lot of these private grants that have helped with the rent and securing a commercial lease, and just help pay for it. So even even the classes that my instructors are teaching, that money goes directly to them. So the studio isn't pulling the pocket like you normally do. You know, normally instructors get paid a set rate, no matter who takes the class, this time, it's whoever takes the class will they pay goes directly to you. So sometimes it may get more, like don't get used to this guys, it's solely during COVID. But you know, I for me, too, it's not just taking care of the Harlem community, but the Harlem cycle community, like my team is, is amazing. And I love them, and I want to make sure they're okay. And so and I want them when I come back. And so to me, it's you know, we have to make sure we took care of that so that the live stream classes goes directly to them. But the at home subscription comes to the studio, and as well as the bike rental fee.

Jamila Souffrant 43:46

Right now, do you have like, how many employees if you have full time employees? What does the structure your team look like?

Tammeca Rochester 43:52

For structure is one full time employee, which is me. And then 12 part time contractors, right?

Jamila Souffrant 43:58

Right. And that's the thing, right? Like running your business. I'm experiencing that now with Journey to Launch and expanding and like wanting to have and get help. Versus like even making, I said this in another podcast. If your business makes let's just say, quarter million, which sounds like a lot because I just said million in there, but $250,000 your business makes that you don't make that your business like that. As a business business owner, I may still walk away with like minimum wage when you do the math on how much time I put in.

Tammeca Rochester 44:24

Oh, yeah, I'm definitely minimum wage yet.

Jamila Souffrant 44:26

Right, I remember last year, same thing, like even now like I'm making more money this year, and I'm paying myself but it's still not like equivalent to what I made at my job just yet. And I think as a, as an entrepreneur, as a as someone who's trying to grow something and take care of like, not like yourself, but also others. Like you, you are taking care of putting your team first, right, they may be getting paid more than you at or at the moment or the same amount. And, you know, that's just what's necessary as a leader especially during times like this, where it's just like, maybe you know, your income has been impacted. So I just think it's important to understand that these are the kind of things that as a leader, if you think about being an entrepreneur full time like that it's not the money is the money will come may come depends, but not always right away. And if you're pivoting, doing different things like this, you may you some people are not even paying themselves like at all remember, I mean, they're paying everyone else first, because that's what it's going to take to keep the business going.

Tammeca Rochester 45:21

Absolutely. And there were there been months that I got nothing, zero, barely enough to pay my rent, just you know. I do have a fiance who was still working. So he was able to cover us for a couple of months. But I mean, just so what you said, as a leader, your team comes first, your clients come first, your family comes first. And at some point, you've put yourself there, but it's you definitely not first. And you have to be comfortable living off of bare necessities.

Jamila Souffrant 45:52

Yeah, and I think there is a difference because I also don't want to get stuck into this like kind of savior kind of complex or not savior martyr complex to write as a business owner, because, you know, it's one thing I need to pay my bills and my living expenses, maybe I'm not making a profit in terms of like having extra money to invest and save, right? But I need to, if you want Journey to Launch, if you want Harlem Cycle to keep going, I need to eat food, and have a roof over my head to pay that. So like that's just like baseline. But I think it's just important to like, as the business owner, you know, that the goal eventually is like to reap the benefits to like, this isn't that you're investing now, like maybe the return right away, it's not there, but it's compounding. And when that time comes for you to reap the benefits you did, like it's take it, you deserve it,

Tammeca Rochester 46:37

You have to delay gratification. That's all it is. I know on the other side of this, I'll be okay. Because I will have build a brand and a community and a business that's sustainable, and that has, you know, rallied around us and has helped us. And so that I know is happening because I've made these small sacrifices. But also, you know, I will tell people bend but don't break, like bend on certain things. But if you feel like you're breaking and your family's suffering, and you can't sustain yourself that you've gone too far. But do you need that extra shirt? No, that's a bend.

Jamila Souffrant 47:14

Right, right. Do I need to like pay this mortgage and rent like, I'm not, I'm not betting on that I need to make and make sure I pay myself accordingly. So this episode will come out way after we kind of record this, but you did have unfortunate events happen at your break in? Right? And you want to talk a little bit about that, because I saw that on social media. And I'm just like, oh my goodness,

Tammeca Rochester 47:36

Yeah, and so that was we I got a call from actually the landlord. And she's like, to me the alarm was going off. I said the police went off at like 3am. And at 6am it was going it gone off again. So I ran out to the studio live a few blocks away, and I got there, the police were there and our front door was completely kicked in glass shattered everywhere. And I literally had my heart broke. Because it like Harlem Cycle is like a second home. I sometimes did spend time here then in my apartment, and to have that happen, particularly because we are such a community focused studio. And I was like who would do this. Everyone knows this. Like, everyone in this community knows who we are those what we're here for. And it just was a moment of like, I am so broken right now. They took so much from me at that moment. And literally the week before we had the ceiling leak, my hard drive of my computer crashed and I was like Lord, I don't know what I did, like I feel like the test is here. And so that that was such a problem moment for me. And I like took a picture of the door.

I posted it on social media was like I am tired. And literally like five minutes later, one of the clients calling it like Actually, I was trying to send her to voicemail accidentally answered. And she's like are you okay? And I was like No, I'm fine I'm sobbing and crying. But I was like, No, I'm fine. I'm coming over to help. I was like, No, it's just glass, and I just need to clean it up. And she she just hung up and I was like, Okay, good. Whatever. Literally Five minutes later, she's at the door with a broom in her hand gloves on. And then like 10 minutes later, there's two other business owners and they were here sweeping and cleaning. And I'm like, still like in tears trying to figure out what's happening and why this happened. And it was beautiful. It's like so it's such a dark moment and such a dark thing to happen. The community showed up for us and it was just like refreshing to see it and to like feel the love and to feel the warm because we haven't seen them in eight months. Like we haven't seen our clients in eight months not in person like that. And you know, even with our live streaming on demand, the numbers aren't the same. You haven't seen a lot of our people in a long time and they just literally like the outpour of love. I've gotten so many gifts and calls and people stopping in emails, text messages like, it's just been so amazing to see that level of support. So in that moment they make they made broke me down, but the love has really built me back up.

Jamila Souffrant 50:10

Oh, that's I, that's, that's amazing to hear. I'm so glad. And I know like we are so like, still unaware of what 2020 has to offer and all the twists and turns, and even not just but even just in the future. But like, what where do you see like, do you feel like after this, let's just say like, if we can see past this and things get back to normal, quote unquote, do you feel like people will want to, they get used to being at home doing workouts or that they will crave the community part of working together again.

Tammeca Rochester 50:39

So you know, everyone, everyone has their own theory, but to me, there is nothing that can replace group fitness, there is nothing that can replace community. And there is nothing that can replace like the push you get from being live with someone there to push you along the way. And so you know, it may be slow coming back, like I know, people are going to be a little timid and scared just because of so many unknowns during this time. But overall, I think in the end, we'll probably come out even better one because we are a small studio. Because you know, we've always been very meticulous about everything. And because we've also been so you know, towards the individualism and personalization of you know, who's who would what's what, as you're coming into the studio. And that's what people need, they need someone who care about them coming in. And I feel like we've been living in isolation for so long. We need to be around people, we need community and we need that. And so I think in the end, we'll be okay.

Jamila Souffrant 51:40

Yeah, yeah, I love that. And yes, I'm just thinking to like, because I take like when I joined my local gym here, and they have cycling and all the times like the music, I'm just like, like, it's okay, but it's not like what I want to hear. So I already know, like, I haven't taken one of your classes. Like when things open back up. I'd love to like come and do that. But it's just like I can imagine though like that energy like being able to vibe out like to music that you actually like listening to what like I'm assuming like you have a wide genre but you do like probably hip hop and

Tammeca Rochester 52:09

Wide genre, but you know the Jamaican in me and sneak in the playlists

Jamila Souffrant 52:16

I would want a whole reggae set. I need like

Tammeca Rochester 52:16

We have a whole reggae class. So Thursday night is that reggae rundown class, Sundays is soulful Sunday, where it's old school, hip hop, r&b and sometimes gospel. We have like soca,Soca Sunday, Saturdays too. We have hip hop Fridays, like we're we're about to music.

Jamila Souffrant 52:40

Love it. I love it. Okay, so to begin, please tell everyone where they can follow up with you and Harlem Cycle all the cool things you're doing online now. And then just like how they can support your business.

Tammeca Rochester 52:49

Yes, you can always find us online. Our website is harlem-cycle.com. You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook @harlemcycle. All the things we're doing our online, check it out on our website, you know, join our apple program. So even if you are looking for cycling classes, they are coming in early November, and they'll be on our on demand platform. But we also want you to try those mappings workouts. So keep moving. Keep doing those things so that you're ready for cycling classes when they're back Why? So you know, you can always check those out as well. Awesome. And I'll link all that in episode show notes. Thanks so much for coming on sharing your story. I loved it. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me.

Jamila Souffrant 53:35

Okay, I hope you enjoyed that episode with Tammeca, I for one, am for sure gonna check out Harlem cycle once things get back to quote unquote regular and we can do things like that and feel more safe to be in person because I'm just like what a cycling class with reggae and Afro beats and the things that I like to listen to. Let's do it. So again, I love the conversation. hope you did too. Let me know what you thought of it. As always, just make sure you tag me @journeytolaunch tag @Harlemcycle to let us know what you thought of the episode.

Okay, now it's time for DCU Tip of the Week. Plan your meals in advance. If summer had you on the go and eating out more or ordering in more, fall can be time to cozy up with a slow cooker or stay in plan larger meals and freeze leftovers so you can still have convenience at home.

If you want to check out the episode shownotes that's where you can get links to anything that's mentioned and even get a transcribed version of this episode that you can read. Go to journeytolaunch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode. Now you can also still grab your free journeyer jumpstart guide by texting, launch to 33777 or go to journeytolaunch.com/jumpstart.

If you want to support me and the podcast and love the free content and information that you get here, here are four ways that you can support me in the show. One, make sure you're subscribed to the podcast wherever you listen, whether that's Apple podcasts, that purple app on your phone, your Android device, YouTube, Spotify, wherever it is that you happen to listen, just subscribe so you're not missing an episode. And if you're happening to listen to this in Apple podcasts, rate, review and subscribe there. I appreciate and read every single review. Number two, follow me on my social media accounts. I'm @journeytolaunch on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. And I love love love interacting with journeyers there. Three, support and check out the sponsors of this show. If you hear something that interests you, sponsors are the main ways we keep the podcast lights on here. So show them some love for supporting your girl. Four, and last but not least, share this episode this podcast with a friend or family member or co worker so that we can spread the message of journey to launch. Alright, that's it. Until next week, keep on journeying journeyers

Jamila Souffrant 0:00

You're listening to the Journey to Launch podcast. Everything You Need to Know About Credit Unions and Why Banking with a Credit Union is Good for Your Wallet and Community.

Intro 0:13

Welcome to the Journey to Launch podcast with your host Jamila Souffrant, as a money expert who walks her talk, she helps brave Journeyers like you get out of debt, save, invest and build real wealth. Join her on the Journey to Launch to Financial Freedom.

Jamila Souffrant 0:40

Hey, hey, hey, journeyers Welcome to the Journey to Launch podcast. I'm so excited to speak to you today to bring you this bonus episode about credit unions. Now I partner with Digital Federal Credit Union, also known as DCU. And it's been a great great partnership because a synergy of what credit unions are all about and what DCU all about matches my vibe matches journey to launch, because not only are they about helping their community, they're also helping your wallet as a credit union member. And so I wanted to bring more light about credit unions to you some more education around what credit unions are, why you should join one and bust any myths that you may have. I mean, I even joined my own local credit union since starting this partnership, MCU. And so it was really important for me to bring you more information about credit unions. And so on the podcast today I am talking to Ron McLean. Ron is president and CEO of the cooperative credit union Association, also known as CCUA. The cooperative credit union Association represents nearly 200 credit unions in Delaware, Massachusetts, New Hampshire and Rhode Island, empowering them individually and collectively to provide consumers with outstanding financial services. CCUA provides advocacy before legislators and regulators resources for staying compliant and educational opportunities to help credit unions effectively lead and manage thriving credit unions. So Ron basically knows all about credit unions, so I had to invite him on the show, to really give us all the information about why we really need to consider credit unions as a valuable, viable option for our banking needs.

And even better guess what Ron and I are going live on Instagram together next Friday. So depending on when you listen to this, Ron and I are going live on November 20 at 12pm Eastern Time on Instagram will be going live from my page Journey to Launch and Digital Federal Credit Union's page DCUs page and their page is DCUcreditunion, so make sure you're following me and DCU and then you can check out our live on November 20 at 12pm. Eastern time, I'll be sitting down with Ron and so you can access questions in real time about your credit union options how you join one, maybe something we did not address in this episode.

First, a word from our sponsor DCU, also known as Digital Federal Credit Union. Now at their core credit unions were founded on the philosophy of people helping people for individuals that might find themselves part of the underbanked or underserved communities. Credit Unions offer individuals a safe place to manage their finances or help fund purchases as an alternative to other financial service providers like payday lenders, at DCU. The credit union places and enhance focus on financial education by offering learning modules on key financial topics like budgeting, saving for the unexpected, building credit and much more. DCU also offers a secured credit card that could help individuals establish or improve their credit by borrowing securely against their savings balance. To learn more, check out dcu.org and stick around to the end of the show for a new segment called the DCU money tips of the week, where I'll be sharing tips to help you save and manage your money so you can reach your goals.

If you want the episode Show Notes for this episode, go to journeytolaunch.com or you can click the description of wherever you listen to this episode to get the full episode show notes. Now if you are a new listener to the podcast or an OG Journeyer, I've created a jumpstart guide to help you on your journey to financial freedom. It includes the top episode so listen to the stages to go through to reach financial freedom resources to help you and so much more. Get it for FREE by texting launch to 33777 text launch to 33777 or go to journeytolaunch.com/jumpstart to get your guide for free right now. Okay, let's hop into the episode.

Hey Journeyers, I'm excited because I have an honorary Journeyer on the podcast Ron McLean, who is from CCUA, Cooperative Credit Union Association. Hi, Ron,

Ron McLean 5:05

Jamila, how are you? I'm pleased to join you. So thank you for the invitation.

Jamila Souffrant 5:09

I'm really excited to have you on the show. Because since the partnership with DCU that we've created, I wanted to make sure that my audience is well versed and knowledgable just as I'm still learning myself about credit Ian's and so who better to talk to about the benefits of credit unions and things that we are still learning and that we need to know, is you so I want to bring you here to give us some more background, and give us all the things that we should know, while we're making decisions on which credit union to join, how we can join and all the amazing things.

Ron McLean 5:40

Jamila it's a great story to tell I'm happy to share it. And I think I have a lot of information or information that your audience can benefit from and listen from. So I'm here to help you and help your your audience so I fire away.

Jamila Souffrant 5:52

Right, so Okay, CCUA, what exactly is it? Right? It's it's something that benefits credit unions, but like, what do you do in the midst of this?

Ron McLean 6:00

Yeah, so CCUA, and what you'll find is in the credit union system, there is a ton of acronyms, and CCUA stands for the Cooperative Credit Union Association. We are the trade association representing credit unions in four states, those would be New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and Delaware. And our company, we are the champion. We are the voice for credit unions in those four states. So we do a ton of things when it comes to advocating with members of Congress, regulators. But we also do a ton of compliance education, PR. But at the end of the day, we're trying to create a an environment where more and more consumers can gain access and benefit from being a member of a credit union.

Jamila Souffrant 6:45

Right now, what do you think has been like a barrier for people joining credit unions? Because you guys have been along around for a long time now. Right?

Ron McLean 6:53

Sure. I think it's, in some cases, it's just general awareness. And in some cases, it's a history of just not knowing if somebody can belong to a credit union. And we'll, I think, talk about more that in a little while. But I like to say that not everybody can join every credit union. But there's a credit union for everybody.

Jamila Souffrant 7:12

Yeah, and even to me, like, you know, I've been in the personal finance space, talking about money. And I've, since the partnership with DC, you've done my own research, joined my own local credit union. And hearing all the benefits, I'm just like, this is a no brainer, you think like everyone would try, but there are some barriers. I would like to talk a bit through that. But first, let's back up a bit and talk about what a credit union is for people who have no clue what it is.

Ron McLean 7:38

Sure, sure. So at its very core, a simple term I would use is a member owned financial cooperative, what you're gonna hear me talk about a lot today, to me, is the term member, when you are a member of a credit union, you are not a customer. So that's a big difference. Essentially, creditors are owned and controlled, operated by the members of that credit union. So it's going to be a lot of the similar type of services, products that a consumer might think of when a bank, but very mission oriented, a big differences are not for profit stature, and also being run by a volunteer board of directors that makes them very, very unique. And ultimately, for any credit union, it's essentially that if you are have a profit for that credit union, that money goes back to their members in the form of lower fees, better rates on loans, but are rates on shares, new and enhanced services, something that's very unique for credit unions is the term one member, one vote. So if you are a member of a credit union, and you are voting, say, for the board directors, whether you have $50 or $500,000, on deposit, your vote counts the same. So very much very much a democratic way of doing banking, and a real incredible proud history of lifting people up, serving underserved communities, fighting for economic justice. So a rich and proud history, which I'll talk more about, hopefully, in our conversation.

Jamila Souffrant 9:21

Yeah, and that's the you know, amazing thing. I think, especially in today's climate with so many more people are conscious of how they're spending their money and who they spend their money with. This is a great solution alternative or just like a complimentary service that even if you still bank with traditional banks, that you are considering a credit union like not just for your community, which is great, but just it's like also just good financial tools and products.

Ron McLean 9:47

Yeah, I would say it's in your best interest to take a hard look and if not definitely join a credit union. You will save money. You're going to put some more dollars back in your pocket and it's real dollars. The average family will save several hundred dollars a year at a minimum by being a member of a credit union. And that membership can extend to your family. So it's again in just strictly dollars and cents. There's a great other story when it comes to local trusted, you know, financial institution. But at its heart, you know, it's mission oriented, it's about people helping people, people over profit. And part of that translates into saving people money.

Jamila Souffrant 10:30

Right. So it's the best, like you said, of both worlds. Yes, it has that good mission. But it also is a bit, you're making good judgment calls as a personal steward of your own money, putting your money in a credit union, because you're making money. It's not like a charity, where you're losing money, you are banking with the best here,

Ron McLean 10:47

Jamila, I want to stress with your with your audience, too, that when a member walks into any credit union, that credit union, they want what's best for you and your family. So they won't try and feed a death, they won't try and sell you something across something that's not in your best interest. They want what's best for you, your family, etc. So you're a member owner of that credit union, so they want to help you, and they will have your best interests in mind. And no matter what solution they have for you, and to help you get to a better place in life

Jamila Souffrant 11:19

right now. And you know, the amazing thing is there are so many credit unions, so your organization supports how many credit unions,

Ron McLean 11:25

right, so CCUA, we represent about 210 credit unions in the northeast, there's roughly 5000 across the country, it is a growing membership. So nationally, 100 and 20 million or so people are members of a credit union, assets are growing members are growing, it's definitely on the upward climb. But for our membership in our four states, we have 210

Jamila Souffrant 11:49

Wow, that's a lot. And so now let's talk about when people are considering joining one, what are some of the things that like they need to look for, because one of the things that I've heard come up for people is, well, I don't know if I can actually join, like, I've seen the credit union, there's one around the corner, like for me, there's one around the corner, but you don't necessarily, you know, think about it, and you're like, well, maybe that's for us, like you know, someone else, like I don't know, if I'm eligible. So let's talk through how one can find it the eligible and then join a credit union. Sure,

Ron McLean 12:17

so So there are two sites I would like to direct your audience to. One is called bettervaluesbetterbanking.com again, bettervaluesbetterbanking.com. Also another site called yourmoneyfurther.com. Again, me repetitive here Jamila, yourmoneyfurther.com, you can go to both those sites, you can just put in your zip code that will give you a list of credit unions in your area. And it would take you know reaching out to a couple of credit unions to talk about you know, joining and membership, you can visit websites that will give you information about how you can join, and it's going to run the gamut. Some credit unions will have a a we call community charter where it might be if you live work, worship, or go to school in a certain area that qualifies for membership. You know, I have to say that credit union represents society. There are credit unions, for the military, for postal workers, for hospitals, for teachers, for police for fire, it's gonna really, I guess, be different per credit union, not everyone has a community charter, some are going to be specific to a, again, perhaps an employer or an association. But there are two great tools and bettervaluesbetterbanking, and yourmoneyfurther to explore membership.

Jamila Souffrant 13:35

Yeah, and I will link all those website links in the show notes so that people can also um, follow up. And the other thing so when I joined my local credit union, which is Municipal Credit Union, I was able to join because my husband is a teacher, so teachers were allowed to join and then any family member, so as his wife, I was able to join, so sometimes it's just relationship wise that you can also be eligible.

Ron McLean 13:56

Yeah, many times it's, uh, you know, once a member, always a member, so member for life, if you will, and that having that extend to the to the family is just brings greater value to the creditor membership. So in our household, again, a member members will save hundreds of dollars and, you know, family of five, do that times five, that's that's real savings.

Jamila Souffrant 14:17

Right now, how so? If one so someone's interested in joining a credit union. It's no also it's also not that different from joining a traditional bank in terms of there for at least what I went through. It was simple. It was easy. I did it online in 10 minutes, so open up my account. And so I think sometimes a barrier for people could be well, like, how much more work is this? Because it seems like a smaller operation. But just like you explained, actually, credit unions are a big operation. It's just that a lot of people don't necessarily, like know about it, but they're just as in tune with technology and being able to do things online, just like another financial institution.

Ron McLean 14:52

Yeah. 100% that's a myth. I think that is certainly incorrect and not accurate. current news have killer apps. They have killer websites, any device anytime a day at your convenience. So, you know, think of produce, you know, on par, if not better than many of the banks out there. So, again, they invest in technology. They have great cybersecurity aspects. But again, you know, great apps, you know, remote banking, online banking, don't ever think for a minute that a credit union does not have great technology, because they do.

Jamila Souffrant 15:26

Right. And then the other thing is that your money is safe at a credit union. So that might be something that people are thinking, well, I don't know, you know, but your money is just as safe or safer.

Ron McLean 15:35

Absolutely, I would say it is equally safe between a credit and a bank. If you're a customer of a bank, and you walk into that branch and go to a teller, you might see a sign or you would see a sign for your deposits are insured for up to 250,000 by FDIC. So if you walk into a credit union, and you go up to the teller, you will see that your deposits are insured up to the exact same amount by NCUA, which is one more acronym that stands for the National Credit Union Administration. Both FDIC and NCUA are government institutions. So your money, your money is super safe. And it's equally as safe between banks and credit unions.

Jamila Souffrant 16:20

Right. And that's important to note, because I think there's a lot of mistrust of just systems and financial systems with institutions. And so further ensuring people like, Look, your money is just as safe here, anywhere else is important.

Ron McLean 16:32

And Jamila, I would say, you know, use the word trust. And I want to make sure your audience knows that no one is trusted more for financial institutions than credit unions, year after year, year after year. For decades and decades, there have been surveys done of consumers, who do you trust more? And lo and behold, the answer is credit unions. So that's not not not me saying that only I'm basing that on a history of, you know, just a ton of people being asked that question. So walking into a trusted financial institution, I think has great meaning, no matter what time it is, or what year it is, that trust factor, I think is a huge benefit. Again, it goes back to being a member owner,

Jamila Souffrant 17:19

right. And what really, I love about the mission of credit unions is like the community that it's within that it serves. So like if you're banking with a credit union, and you know that money is most likely being deployed to other people within your community, small business owners and some credit unions are made up of like, maybe have a higher percentage of business owners and others. But there was one credit union, it slips my mind now, but it was in Brooklyn. And I love that one of their things was they actually didn't require like a social security number to join. So because the community was very had a lot of, you know, immigrants and undocumented people, but so underbanked people that need the services, and this credit union was able to provide membership to these people. And I thought that like that, to me is just an amazing testimony to the different types of credit unions and how they serve really serve the community.

Ron McLean 18:10

Yeah, and let me just pick up on that a little bit and speak. So very inspiring. So a couple of stories for you just to share. So I've been in the credit system for almost 30 years. So once a couple stories that jumped out to me are a credit CEO saying, you know, we have taxi drivers that are part of our membership, many of them are immigrants, and they don't speak English well, and that the taxi drivers would come to the credit union, bringing their bills with them. And the CEO would sit down with that member with that taxi driver open their bills, and help that member pay their bills. That's that's called you know, going above and beyond, our members bend over backwards, our credit unions bend over backwards to make a difference in their members lives. That includes financial education, financial literacy, I've been in credit unions that are in inner cities and rural areas, all points in between that sit down one on one and teach them financial education, teach them financial literacy. Many credit unions do that with technology as well. But it's the personal human touch that I think resonates with people. And it's part of what I call the credit union difference. But you know, what, you your example Jamila for New York City, that takes place at thousands of credit is across the country.

Jamila Souffrant 19:30

Yeah. And also important to note like, and this is where it comes in, of it being like a balanced approach where Yes, you're helping the community you're giving back in certain ways. But again, when you're banking with a credit union, it is for the betterment also of your personal finances of the financial tools you have, because I don't want people to think well, this is just like a goodwill gesture like it is. But the powerful thing about this is in addition to that, you're actually like on par with and like you said, more time saved And earning more because of this,

Ron McLean 20:02

you're gonna have access to the full range of traditional banking services. And some will be very particular when it comes to financial literacy, financial education, and various types of services. But it's the the mission behind it. It's the caring for families, for people, for businesses that really, really stand out and resonate with people.

Jamila Souffrant 20:24

And, you know, isn't get also specific about the products because, you know, we're talking in general, and maybe some people are like, well, maybe it's just like a checking account or savings account, but it's a wide like array of products that credit unions offer. So let's just go through like, it's literally everything, it's secured credit cards, its business loans, what else?

Ron McLean 20:41

Yep, so it's going to be the full range of lending lending products, certainly on the mortgage lending side or the you know, home lending side, it's going to be the 1530 year, all points in between, at the end of the day, the credit union will want to get you into that home, into that place where you can call your home, they will bend over backwards to make those terms work for you and your family, it's going to be, you know, credit cards, it's going to be auto loans, you and new and used, it's going to be a full range. And on the on the share size is the positive side, it'll be you know, IRAs, CDs, money markets, checking, savings, they will want you to save responsibly. So and that's just on the, you might say the sharing loan side, you're gonna have remote deposit capture, Bill Pay, you know, peer to peer banking, it's going to be a full range, again, any device anytime, at your convenience. And in some cases, credit unions will have maybe a home energy type loan, which I thought was very unique. Some credit unions have sometimes offered loans for help an immigrant become a US citizen, which I think is very, very unique and special. I seen credit use do loans to help people have an adoption, you know, to pay those kinds of expenses. So those are very personal stories that resonate. And it's not going to just stop at the the whole mortgage, the checking account, it's those really caught one off personalized service that have extra meaning and value, I think to people,

Jamila Souffrant 22:17

right. And, you know, one of the things I was most excited about when being able to partner with DCU was on when I got to understand like, the like the credit union like the way that you guys different credit unions like it's like not a competition at all. It's like all for one, like you said, because you know, I was like, Well, you know, I think joining MCU for me is better, because it's like around the corner. And they were like, Yes, go ahead. And I think on you know, we had a conversation and you were like, it may be true. But like that there's something called, I can actually access like you. There's a way in which you can access your money if the credit unions are associated with each other through their tellers and banks. So I also want to talk about that network system, because it's literally not a competition between the credit units. Everyone is trying to like lift each other up within this system. Yeah,

Ron McLean 23:01

yeah. To me, that's incredibly unique, you know, comparing us to others in the financial space. So a few thoughts quickly on the backup, you mentioned DCU a few times they are a member of our association. They are one of the most respected credit unions not only in New England, but the country. I know their team, well, they have a huge heart. They contribute to thousands of community organizations every single year. And I would say that, you know, DCU lives the credit mission every single day. But within our membership we have credit is way below that, their size, that have the same big heart and mission of serving members. So it's just incredibly heartwarming to see our membership of different asset sizes, fulfill that credit union difference in mission and philosophy. So collaboration is certainly very unique. It kind of blows people away that well, you guys get along and you guys help each other. You know, it's very unusual for people on the outside to see that. So what does that look like for your your audience, that means they collaborate on a surcharge free network, literally 30,000. You know, a network of 30,000 through the co op Financial Services is great for members. There's something called shared branching, close to 2000 credit unions in the country literally share their branches. So a member at one credit union can do banking at another credit union, that opens up roughly 5000 branches coast to coast. That doesn't happen anywhere else. It's the collaborative approach. The creditors have to help one another. It's good business, but it's also the right thing to do to bring the credit union difference to more and more people. And it's very unique, very special. And I think makes us stand out and one more way.

Jamila Souffrant 24:47

Yeah, sure does. And so if someone wanted to understand or know like, like if their credit union and that they're considering or the current one that they maybe don't even know there's a benefit to this, they would just need to call and ask or is there a site one of the like the sites to go To get that information,

Ron McLean 25:01

yeah, first things first, I would start with where you currently do your Where's your membership app, we do your banking app for the credit union. So they would be the first ones to validate, you know, yes, we are a part of shared branching or not, roughly half of the 120 or so million people in the country have access to shared branching. So there's a good chance that your credit union is part of that,

Jamila Souffrant 25:24

right. And the other cool thing is the access to your money. So I think that's also like a myth of that it's hard to get to like, especially if you move away, you know, life changes and career changes. And just the unknown, is if you join a credit union, like the thought processes, maybe with a traditional bank, you can rely that they're mostly the big ones, you know, will be everywhere. But that if you move away from a credit union, and like what happens, can you talk through the access to your money, and then moving away from wherever you opened your account.

Ron McLean 25:51

Sure, yeah. So great access to your money. As far as if you move, say, if I moved from Boston down to Florida, I'd have access to shared branching, who I actually, you know, I'm a member of a DCU. But you know, they have great technology, we touched on that earlier. So online, digital banking, the app surcharge free networks, so your your membership that that membership travels with you, and you will not miss a beat. I know a ton of people that have moved from place to place at a state that have not missed a beat when it comes to having full access to your money. And it's just, again, part of what we do.

Jamila Souffrant 26:29

What is then the charge for more people to join and like credit unions, is it more of a knowledge, like just getting the benefits and promoting credit unions more to the public is there, what is on your mind for your organization, a way to increase membership, so people more people join and know about it.

Ron McLean 26:47

Yeah, it comes down to in many cases, awareness, people just not knowing that they that you know what credit unions are. And there is that kind of perception that Oh, a credit might be challenging to join, I'm not sure if I can quite join that credit union. So as an association, we need to help fight down those barriers that people might have a perception. And we're working on that we have our own four state awareness campaign called Better Values, Better Banking, there's a national campaign taking place right now called Open Your Eyes. And that's really open your eyes to the benefits of a credit union. So there's initiatives taking place at the local, state and national level. At the end of the day, if people just kind of dip their toe in the water and say, You know what, I'm going to take a shot at this and belong to a credit union, it's going to pay huge dividends, no pun intended, over time that they will find the service is more personal, it's more meaningful, it's more trusted. You know, in today's day and age, I think, the social mission of giving back and keeping money local, of helping your neighbors get to a better place financially. And that resonates with people. People want to help people, you want to help your neighbor, you want to help your town in your city and your community get to a better place. So people over profit is not just a term, people help you people, not only a term that's lived every day for our members, and if consumers were to, again, dip your toe in the water and take a shot at it. I think they fall in love with a credit on day one.

Jamila Souffrant 28:20

Yeah, I mean, I have I feel like it's definitely been a great experience for me since joining. And credit unions have been around for a long time. So it's not like they're going to go somewhere. So I'd like to kind of get into the history of credit unions how they came to be, if you can just give us like a little walk back in history.

Ron McLean 28:36

Yeah, I don't want to go too far back, I go back quite a ways. And the real roots came from Europe. It was a cooperatives that were in in Europe that taking place you might have been a farm cooperative, or, you know, some kind of financial cooperative, but that that migrated across the ocean, and really took footprint in Canada. And there's some early pioneers, Alphonse Desjardin, Edward Filene, who are big people in our in our world, but they were really pioneers in North American cooperative movement. And in Massachusetts, we are home to the first state credit union and law in 1909, that helped establish the credit system in Massachusetts. And it started out small, but over time, it just spread like you know, a seed, you know, it just grew and grew. And 1934, President Roosevelt signed the Federal Credit Union Act into law that opened up things even more, but it kind of germinated in, in Europe, came across the ocean, Canada down to the US. And it really started out for people that didn't have access to mainstream financial services and might have been immigrants of some kind or people that felt left out in society. And it took maybe a local leader of some kind to band together. peers, and in those days Jamila, it was modest beginnings, it may have been a $25, you know, start to that credit union in 1909 or 1910, or something like that. But the the concept of pulling money together to help your neighbors help people have a common bond, get to a better place, just took off. And, you know, fast forward years and years have gotten through depressions, World Wars, pandemics, even, but credit unions are thriving. They are growing 120 million, I think those credit founders in 1909, would be amazed at the credit system today, and incredibly proud that today's leaders like DCU, or others, have lived up to that mission of people helping people.

Jamila Souffrant 30:48

Yeah, and again, it goes so in line with some, you know, my podcasts with my content, when I talk to journeyers. It's about you know, reaching financial independence and freedom and creating more options in your life. And a lot of that is just doing it in a way that also is in alignment with your values. And so I think now more than ever, people are realizing that how they vote with their money is important, how they, you know, bank is important and who they support and give their money to is important. So I really hope that this crash course in credit unions was great for people to really like, I want you to take action guys, I want you to really look up if you're not a member of your local credit union to look up we'll do the sites again, where you can check out who you have access to I think you had said bettervaluesbetter banking.com, and yourmoneyfurther.com, right?

Ron McLean 31:38

Yep, bettervaluesbetterbanking.com and yourmoneyfurther.com. And Jamila, if I can just give another plug for our credit our credit union. So yeah, I can tell you that they give give money, they get millions of dollars every year to charities which they do so. But it's not just writing a check for credit unions. It's that personal touch. So in Massachusetts, we have something called the Mass Coalition for the Homeless and Build a Bed for Every Child. It's the state charity that credit unions rally around. And what happens is several times a year, credit unions will come together and build a bed for homeless child. And that's you know, hundreds of people doing that every single year. And it's not just build a bed for a child, our credit unions will, they'll give them a book, they'll give them a blanket, they'll give them a stuffed animal. So it's just incredibly personal, incredibly meaningful. And that's just one example of thousands about how how credit is care, whether it's DCU, or the credit unions across New Hampshire, Delaware, Rhode Island, I could I could rattle off many more, but at least some of them out and want to know, you know, leave any of our members out. But I'm incredibly proud of how credit unionsis make a difference. Throughout the pandemic, our credit has stepped up naturally in their DNA to waive billions of dollars in payments for mortgage consumer, business loans, they waive millions of dollars of fees, set up emergency loans, it's just an incredible story that I think needs to be told we're trying to tell the story and having your journeyers hear this, I think it's just one more venue. So to your listeners, if they're on a journey, you have a financial partner for life, and your local trusted credit union. And again, I would say take a hard look. And at the end of the day, I think you'll be thrilled.

Jamila Souffrant 33:25

Amazing. So again, we'll link all of that in the episode show notes. This was a great event for me, I learned some new things on this in this conversation. So I'm really hoping that you listening will also really take action and check out your local credit union. Thanks once again,

Ron McLean 33:38

Jamila, Thank you and have a great day to your listeners. And I will see you on the journey.

Jamila Souffrant 33:46

All right, I really hope you enjoyed and got a lot of information from this episode with Ron. My intention here is not only that you are educated in this, like that's amazing, but that you take action. So check out your local credit union and become a member. And don't forget, Ron and I are going live on Instagram on November 20 at 12pm. Eastern time. So come join us, I'm @journeytolaunch and DCU is @dcucreditunion, make sure you're following us and join us live to ask your questions and to see us and interact with us.

Okay, here's the DCU Tip of the Week, do a fall cleaning now's a great time to see what you have around the house that you no longer need. Consider selling furniture or co signing clothing that's in good shape for extra cash and make sure you put that extra money to your savings goals.

If you want to check out the episode shownotes that's where you can get links to anything that's mentioned and even get a transcribed version of this episode that you can read. Go to journeytolaunch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode. Now you can also still grab your free journeyer jumpstart guide by texting Launch to 33777 or go to journeytolaunch.com/jumpstart

If you want to support me and the podcast and love the free content and information that you get here, here are four ways that you can support me in the show. One, make sure you're subscribed to the podcast wherever you listen, whether that's Apple podcasts, that purple app on your phone, your Android device, YouTube, Spotify, wherever it is that you happen to listen, just subscribe so you're not missing an episode. And if you're happening to listen to this in Apple podcasts, rate, review, and subscribe there. I appreciate and read every single review. Number two, follow me on my social media accounts. I'm @journeytolaunch on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. And I love love love interacting with journeyers there. Three, support and check out the sponsors of this show. If you hear something that interests you, sponsors are the main ways we keep the podcast lights on here. So show them some love for supporting your girl. Four, and last but not least, share this episode this podcast with a friend or family member or co worker so that we can spread the message of Journey to Launch. Alright, that's it until next week, keep on journeying journeyers.

Jamila Souffrant 0:00

You're listening to the Journey to Launch podcast, How to Build a Bigger Life, Not a Bigger Lifestyle and Become a Master of Your Money with Adam Carroll.

Intro 0:13

Welcome to the Journey to Launch podcast with your host Jamila Souffrant. As a money expert who walks her talk, she helps brave Journeyers like you get out of debt, save, invest, and build real wealth. Join her on the Journey to Launch to Financial Freedom in five, four, three, two, one..

Jamila Souffrant 0:40

Hey journeyers, welcome to the Journey to Launch podcast. If you're new around here, don't worry, we are going to have lots of fun and you're going to learn and hopefully you'll become a returning journeyer. That's what you are now if you are with me on this journey to Financial Freedom and Independence.

Now this week on the episode, I have Adam Carroll. Adam Carroll is an internationally recognized speaker and author. He's a two time TED Talk speaker with one of his talks surpassing 5 million views. Creator of the documentary film "Broke, Busted and Disgusted", and works with companies large and small on culture initiatives and engaging human capital. Adam is the founder of the Shred Method, the host of the Build a Bigger Life Podcast and retreat leader within his community of life architects. Adam lives through the principle built a bigger life and not a bigger lifestyle, and is doing this through helping others with his platform. And I was really excited to talk to Adam because I can tell already, by his content that we are similar in the approach of thinking about building your life, and then having money be something that funds that life. So going within to really understand what matters to you the most. And then being able to craft a life you love. And of course using money to fuel the things that you want, right. So using money to have the things that you want, but not letting money, decide what it is that you truly want. So a really enlightening conversation that I think you'll enjoy with Adam.

First a word from our sponsor DCU, also known as Digital Federal Credit Union. Now at their core, credit unions were founded on the philosophy of people helping people for individuals that might find themselves part of the underbanked or underserved communities. Credit Unions offer individuals a safe place to manage their finances, or help fund purchases as an alternative to other financial service providers like payday lenders, at DCU. The credit union places and enhance focus on financial education by offering learning modules on key financial topics like budgeting, saving for the unexpected building credit and much more. DCU also offers a secured credit card that could help individuals establish or improve their credit by borrowing securely against their savings balance. To learn more, check out dcu.org and stick around to the end of the show for a new segment called the DCU money tips of the week, where I'll be sharing tips to help you save and manage your money so you can reach your goals.

If you want the episode Show Notes for this episode, go to journeytolaunch.com or you can click the description of wherever you listen to this episode to get the full episode show notes. Now, if you are a new listener to the podcast or OG journeyer I've created a jumpstart guide to help you on your journey to financial freedom. It includes the top episodes, so listen to the stages to go through to reach financial freedom, resources to help you and so much more. Get it for FREE by texting launch 233777 text launch 233777 or go to journeytolaunch.com/jumpstart to get your guide for free right now. Okay, let's hop into the episode.

Hey journeyer super excited as I always am to speak to this week's guest Adam Carroll. Adam, you have a blog and books and podcasts and you talk about money. You know, I really try not to like stay away from like the echo chamber of personal finance, like people I try to it's hard because sometimes like speaking to you guys, it's like you, you know exactly like what it is that will help people because you're doing it in your own stuff. But I saw the TED talk that you did about money and I want to talk about that and just overall building a bigger life like this is something that draws me to when people talk bigger than just like the dollars and cents. Like what does it all mean in the context of us all living better life now like not waiting for everything like to happen all our goals. So all that to say I'm excited to talk to you more about how we can all build a bigger life. So welcome,

Adam Carroll 4:48

Jamila. Thank you for having me. And it's an honor to talk to the journeyers Yes, this is awesome.

Jamila Souffrant 4:54

Okay, so building a bigger life. Your brand is based on that. Very like, you know, everyone says they want to do that. But you know, some people will say like, but how do I build a bigger life without more money? Like how can one build a bigger life right from where they are with be still being in debt, still not understanding all the investments they need to do or still feeling like they're behind? Like, what do you say to people who are just like, how do I do that without more money?

Adam Carroll 5:18

Yeah, I listened to your show with Ramit Sethi, and you were talking about richness is basically freedom of time for you that it was the ability to spend time doing what you want with whom you want. And I learned this years ago from a gentleman who had started a software company and ended up selling it before he was 30 for like $15 million. So he had achieved this level of financial freedom that I was really aspiring to. And his name was Matt. And Matt told me at a conference where I met him, he said, Adam, I'm all about the four legacies. And I said, what tell me what the four legacies are. And he said, The first is financial freedom. Financial Freedom leads to time freedom, because those who have money have time, time, freedom leads to relationship freedom, because those who have time spend time with people they want to spend time with. And then relationship freedom leads to service freedom. And I kind of borrowed this from another speaker, but he said, we were put on this earth not to be employed, but to be deployed. And so when we figure out what our deployment is, then we can really build a bigger life because we're doing what we enjoy every single day. And so to answer your question, Jamila about how do people build a bigger life, one of the very first things that we have to do is we have to get really clear on what are our core values that we want to live by every single day. And it may seem like completely removed from money. But it's truly not like for me, I know that my five core values are family, freedom, love, growth and connection. And if I'm living my life, according to those five values, my life is infinitely bigger. And so the goal is to architect my life, so to speak. And I truly believe that we're all life architects, that that I have to architect my life in a way where I get to leverage those five values every single day.

Jamila Souffrant 7:09

Oh, my gosh, so there's so many quotables I don't know where to start. Okay, so I actually really like breaking out the freedom into four stages. And I think most people actually in the way, I don't know if it's meant to be in that order, but I do believe most people think in order for me to have the ultimate freedom of like service. So like, you know, given the way I want, like they have to be financially free, and then time free, and then a relationship and then so on. But I wrote down that list, and I'm like it, can you start backwards? like can you work? Can you like, do this in a way where you find and still reach financial freedom, but not make that like the ultimate or the first step for some people where it seems so out of touch? But like, how can you give in service despite your current situation? And then how can you choose like, the relationships you want? Like you actually have a choice, you don't have to wait for financial freedom to do any of the other things. But maybe you can't do it to the capacity you want. But you can do it. What do you think about switching around if there is an order, like switching it so that the finance part of it is actually like the last part? It's kind of like the byproduct of everything else?

Adam Carroll 8:10

Yes, yes. I love this question. And I've gotten this from a number of people who will say, I don't know that it has to be in that order. And I would agree, I think you can do this in reverse order. Or you can mix and match what you want to when you want. Candidly, I think that, and I don't know your particular situation, family and money and all of that. But I would assume that when you started putting out content, it was really more about being of service to other people, because you had the story you wanted to tell. And I think those of us in the financial education community, we start doing this because we just have this desire to serve, we want to create content and help people. And then eventually we build this massive relationship of folks who are also in our sphere, and those who are helping in terms of a tribe. And then we eventually get to a little more time freedom because the money starting to come in on what we're building. And then eventually we get to financial freedom, which is awesome.

The way that I approached it, because I had met Matt, and he laid it out exactly. It has to be money- time- relationship- service. For me, it was studying really hard about how would I create financial freedom in my current state, or status or income level. And so I wrote about in my book called "Mastery of Money for Students", that it's really about playing two things simultaneously, you play great offense, and you play great defense. So from a defensive posture, my wife is an amazing couponer. She like she will cut costs yet. She'll have 12 tabs open on on Google Chrome, trying to find the best deal on a pair of pants for my son, you know what I mean? And she's great at defense. But I particularly think I'm really good at offense. So the two of us together make a really effective team because we're constantly trying to limit our expenses and maximize our income which in my world creates this this giant spread, which I call the life factor. And the bigger the life factor is over a longer period of time, the more free you ultimately can be.

Jamila Souffrant 10:11

Yeah, I love that. And it's so many ways you can look at this, if you have a partner, it's great if maybe one has a specialty and the other, either area, you may just be a single person and, or the person in your family who is like really the one thinking about all this because not, let's be real, like some people, like have partners, and they're not really involved, like financially, like, they're not like helping with that at all. So I would say this, like my husband, like he's involved, but he really, he kind of like leaves leaves it up to me, like he follows my lead, which is fine. But it's really like being able to like, and I wrote this in the notes that I sent to you before, it's like finding that balance, because one of the things that you talk about in your TED talk and in your content and get into like this idea of invisible money, and financial abstraction that like the fact that especially nowadays, money is not as real as it was before we don't see it, especially our children don't see it, they just see cards and money, just like things being bought without understanding the value of money that that's what sends people into a lot of financial trouble.

And you talked about kind of money is not limitless when it comes in that area to like spending. But then on the other side, you know, having an abundant mindset on income and earning money, especially as an entrepreneur or just you know, anyone earning money, which is everyone hopefully, how does one balance that because let's say you're the same person, if one person is like just focused on cutting expenses, and they may be fine, they have a partner that can take on the abundance mindset, and then maybe that's fine. But I've also found that it's been hard like being one person and trying to balance those two things in me, because while I'm like, okay, I don't want to spend that like, you know, it's only $10. But it's $10 that we can put towards something. But then on the other side, undervaluing maybe the income that needs to come to me in order to be abundant. So what are your thoughts on that?

Adam Carroll 11:54

I think finding the balance is a really tricky thing. And I think particularly in couples, one of the things that that has to happen, in my opinion. Now some people out there will say no, no to two different people can do this differently. And you could have a couple that as two separate accounts and spending money that's different and all that. I truly believe that my wife and I getting on the same page was crucial in our journey to financial independence, financial freedom. We read a book years and years and years ago, called "Smart Couples Finish Rich" by David Bach. And David, you know, is a monster in this industry. But his his advice was so straightforward, and it was needed at the time. But it was basically get on the same page about what your future vision is for each other and for the relationship for your children. And when we did, it was much easier for us to create balance, because we said, Hey, we really want to take cool vacations every year, we really want to make sure that our children are are able to do athletic activities and take lessons and certain things and there's expense that goes along with that. So the trade off that we're gonna make is in going out to eat as an example. And lucky for us, my wife loves to cook. And she voraciously took on that task of making sure that she was cooking all the time. But she loved it and it feeds one of her passions. So I think in finding the balance, going back to my original statement, if you know what your values are, and what's your husband's name, Jamila,

Jamila Souffrant 13:25

Woody,

Adam Carroll 13:26

Woody. So if you know what Woody's values are, and Jamila and Woody can come together on here are 10 values we got to live up to every day. And we're going to do our best to get seven or eight of those every week. You can create balance without having to overspend in one area or another.

Jamila Souffrant 13:42

Yeah, that totally like makes sense. And as you're, you're saying it, I'm like, but I want all the things right, like I still want to go out to eat. I still want right now to live in New York, which is expensive. Yes, I want to send my kids to extracurricular activities. I want to take nice vacations. I don't do all those things right now. But those are the things that I aspire to want to be able to do even while on the path to financial independence. And so I also think it's a matter of maybe not all the things now, not now, but later with some of it.

Adam Carroll 14:10

Yeah, I think I mentioned pre interview. I've been on 750 college campuses over the last 15 years doing a program. Originally it was called the "Money Game." And then it was called "Mastery of Money." And having spoken to hundreds of thousands of students, my lasting final message to them was always this: You can have everything you want in life, everything. You just can't have it at 22. And there will be people who want to sell it to you at 22. But if you buy it all at 22, you'll be paying for it at 32 and 42 and 52 and 62. So if you can be a little bit patient and impatient at the same time, you can grow a massive amount of assets and resources in passive income that allow you to afford whatever you want.

Jamila Souffrant 14:56

Hmm, yeah, that's an important distinction. It's not denial. Forever denying yourself from these things that you want. It's just for the moment, and then finding those pockets of enjoyment in the meantime. So you're not depriving yourself.

Adam Carroll 15:10

Exactly, exactly. I'll give you a case in point, I had this big vision to actually that kind of coincided, one was to pay off the house, they just have to be to live completely mortgage free. And the other one that kind of came at the same time was, I wanted to spend an extended period of slow travel time in Italy, because I just had romanticized, what it would be like to live on the Amalfi Coast and be there with my family, and so on and so forth. So both of those actually coincided In the same year, I paid off my house, and we ended up spending a month on the Italian coastline. And to get there, what it required was, we did a couple of years of not over indulging on vacations we had like staycations, and a couple of drive vacations. But where we didn't spend the money on that we were either pouring it into blasting away the mortgage, or setting ourselves up so that we have the money set aside for this European vacation. And a lot of people were like, I don't know how you'd even do that. And what they see is the event, but they don't see the 18 to 24 months leading up to the event, which made the event possible.

Jamila Souffrant 16:17

Yeah. And it's being also clear on what the trade off is like, what is that you are delaying? Because then it makes the delaying not so hard. I mean, it's still gonna be hard, and, you know, decision to make every day that you're gonna stick to your goal. But I think knowing that, hey, in two years, we'll be able to do this. And we'll still have fun in the meantime, and it won't be at the, you know, the same level. But I think that allows you then to put that work in to get it done. So you talk about so your TED Talk, which I watch you talk about money and financial abstraction, and how it puts people more at risk with money. Can you expand on that? And then we'll definitely link the TED talk in the show notes.

Adam Carroll 16:56

Yes. So when I started speaking on college campuses, the average amount of debt for students was hovering in the like 20 to $25,000 range. Over the course of 10 years, I was hearing numbers of 40,000 60,000 80,000. And it literally was doing these market jumps every couple of years. So I started wondering, why are we getting to a point where students are willing to young people are willing to borrow, in some cases up to six figures, in order to get a degree to then go out into the workforce and make 35 or $40,000 a year and struggle financially for an extended period of time. And what occurred to me was that many of them had grown up in a household where either A, they didn't make any decisions about money, or B, they were never exposed to mass decision. So they would spend maybe 20 or $50 at a time. But they had no context around what it was like to drop five grand or 10 grand on something. And so to bring it home in my TED talk, I was playing a game of Monopoly with my kids, and realize that it was more about rolling the dice Jamila than it was about playing the game. And the game of Monopoly, as you know, is about bankrupting everyone around the table, making sound business decisions and buying real estate and leveraging up properties. And so you know, all of that. So I'm playing with my kids. And I started wondering, is the reason they're playing this way. Because the money isn't real. It's just paper slips of paper. And then I started combining that with all the experience I had on college campuses, where it's like, well, maybe the students are making the decisions they are because the money isn't real. It's all just slips of paper, we sign off on a document they give us 20 grand for tuition, we hand it over to the school, but we never see it. And would it be different if you literally had $20,000 given to you? And then you had to usher $20,000 over to the you know, the bursaries, office or whatever? It might feel different, right?

Jamila Souffrant 18:58

Oh, yeah. When you put it that way, I'm like, Yeah, I would totally feel different doing that.

Adam Carroll 19:03

So I decided that I wanted to do this experiment where I would play Monopoly with real cash for two reasons. Number one, I wanted to see if my kids played differently when there was actual tangible Benjamins on the table. And number two, I wanted to show them what $10,000 in cash look like. So they they would realize like, Oh, it's a lot, but this is doable. Number one, oh, it's doable. People can save $10,000. Because I think there's a lot of people out there. And I would I would venture to guess like 98 99% of America is thinking, I don't know that I could ever save 10 grand. But in reality, saving $10,000 should be something we can all do. And we need to get to that point to then realize how easy it is to accumulate wealth, in my opinion.

Jamila Souffrant 19:49

Yeah, so you gave them real money. And how did that change that that change how they played right?

Adam Carroll 19:55

It did so each of my kids have a personality, my daughter She does not generally buy a lot of properties. She plays the luck strategy. She loves chance and Community Chest cards. My youngest son buys everything that he lands on with no exception. When he plays, and my middle son is very strategic, he buys boardwalk, he buys boardwalk and Park Place when he can afford it. But in the build up to that he buys all the railroads and all the utilities. And when they played, my middle son still bought utilities and railroads. But he bought oriental and Baltic Avenue, which are the cheap properties. And when I asked him why he was like, Dad, they're just more affordable. And then he immediately put houses and hotels on them. And that's what bankrupted everybody. My, my youngest son, he buys everything became very, very conservative. And this was a big deal, Jamila, like because he's a kid who he gets five or 10 bucks. He was like, Okay, I'm gonna go buy gummy worms, right. He just, he is all about spending it. And ever since that exercise, and we kind of put some rules in place. He's a kid who always has cash. And he's very conservative about when he spends money, how he spends money. And then my daughter just loves having cash on hand. So she didn't, she didn't really change a lot. But she's very much more mindful about how much she has, and making sure she knows where it is.

Jamila Souffrant 21:13

Yeah, and so and this is really important, because I'm a mom and I have a lot of parents who listen and then so I want to talk about it from the perspective of raising children who are aware, you my mom texted me because one of my earliest memories about money was our mom taking me to a bank to open up a savings account at about six years old. I my oldest is now about six. And so she texted me, she's like, Oh, you should take Zach to open up his account. And he had an account Actually, I did it when he was like one or two. But like, actually want to take him with me to like, get that experience the way I remember it. And so important to me, I know important to a lot of people listening, and then this is gonna be probably maybe same question. Another question is how we are were parented ourselves, even when we don't have kids? how that impacts how we deal with money. So how can we raise more financially aware children? How did you do it? You know, I know you did the game, but like, what other things did you do? And then how can we recognize where in ourselves we need to reparent the way we saw money?

Adam Carroll 22:12

So one of the things I mentioned in the TED talk was there was a study done years ago, it's been replicated a number of times, but it was basically leaders, young leaders within companies. And they're, they're some of the youngest CEOs, they were asked, what is it that put you on the path to this CEO position in your company. And I don't remember what percent it was. But it was a large percentage of the respondents said, early on in my career, I was thrust into a leadership role. But I had really great mentors alongside me. And they were the ones who are coaching and guiding my decisions, which put me in a position to succeed, once I get into a legitimate business leadership role. I sort of extrapolated that study with money and said, if we want our kids to succeed with money, then we have to A, give them money, or allow them to make money at a very young age, and then allow them to make decisions around money at a very young age. That is entirely their decision. But we get to mentor and coach them. So what you find happens most of the time, particularly with six year olds, and what's your six year olds name? Zach, does that go to the store with you? Does he like to go shopping?

Jamila Souffrant 23:22

He likes to, we try to avoid it right now. He does a lot. But no, he is definitely I can see him being a spender.

Adam Carroll 23:30

Yes. So here's what I find is that when families take young kids to Target as an example, and I've seen more than my fair share of young, you know, toddler and elementary school kids throwing a fit in target. And I start, you start to legitimize what the behavior is all about, like they want the thing. But they can't have the thing because the parents have said no, so they have no control over it. But what if we gave the control back to them? If they had money in hand, and you said, they said, I want this nerf thing, or this Lego set, or whatever it is. And you said, well, Zach, that Lego kit is $19. And you only have $12. And you get $6 every week. So how many more weeks would it take for you to save the extra money for that Lego kit? two more weeks? Okay, well, so in two weeks, we'll talk about Legos. And we can either come back and get it or by that point, you may not want them anymore. And so what we're doing is we're teaching number one, they get to make the decision. Number two, we teach delayed gratification. And number three, when they make the decision, there's a little bit of pride of ownership because it's not about you buying them some tchotchke it's about them spending their own, you know, quote unquote, hard earned money for doing some chore around the house that allows them to go get it. So first of all, does that make sense?

Jamila Souffrant 24:54

It does and I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna do that. That's good.

Adam Carroll 24:57

So we did two things with our kids to answer So the other question you asked, how do you how do you build awareness and potential in your kids? Number one, we implemented an allowance program almost immediately after the Monopoly game. And basically, it was $1 per year of age per week that they received. So Zach would get six bucks a week. And some parents are like, that's a lot of money for my kid. $24 a month seems like a lot. But 10% goes to saving 10% goes to investing 10% goes to giving, and 70% is theirs to keep as they see fit, do whatever they want with it. The wrinkle in that was, they had to, and this was a, this was an absolute must. They had to have $300 in an emergency fund, by the time they were five, they had to have $500, by the time they were seven, and they had to have $900 in savings by the time they were nine, I'm sorry, was it three, five, it was up to $500, I think by the age of nine, and then they ended up scaling up. But each of my kids had over $900 by the time they were nine. But at $500. It was 62 or 64% of the American populace, according to CNN Money could not come up with $500 cash in the event of an emergency. I started looking back at that data and thinking that's just habit. That's just poor habit setting, that if you have the habit of saving money, it should not be that difficult. I know college kids that can save $500 in a year. So if we can teach young people that you always have $500 in an emergency fund. And I'd had people say at nine, like what kind of an emergency would need $500. And I told him none. But if they have $500, at nine, they're going to $500 at 19 and 29 and 39, they're always going to have it. And so for us it was all about setting the right habits, and creating behavior that created those habits for them. By offering them things like the family 401k plan, where I would double whatever they put in the invest jar up to $25 a month. And my middle son, he did it every single month. 25 bucks doubled the 50 every month.

Jamila Souffrant 27:13

And how did you deal with like if they got gifts from birthday money gifts? Did you allow them to decide exactly what they want to do with it? Or did you put percentages around how they would use it,

Adam Carroll 27:23

We did the same 10 10 10 70 with money they were given, I still added the family 401k plan so I would double any money they put in from gifts. And my intent with that really was number one, I wanted to have them delay gratification. So it wasn't like I got $100 I want to go to Target and blow it right now. And number two, I've also wanted over time for them to get really into the stock market and understand what it was like to put money into an investment vehicle that they could track over time and watch it grow. So we started talking about what you want to put money in. And you know, one of my kids said, I want to buy Minecraft and Minecraft had just gotten bought by Microsoft. So they bought Microsoft stock and it doubled over the course of the next 12 months. One bought Hershey's chocolate because we had read an article that Hershey's is a very capital efficient company. And then the other one, I'm trying to remember what he invested in. I'm sure it was apple or Tesla or something he was he was geeking out on at the time. But we track we track and measure and monitor what their stock portfolios are doing. Not so much about how much are they gaining. But I want to show them things like look what the earnings per share is, and look what the dividends are and look with the you know, all those kinds of things. What was the 52? week high in the 52? week low? Do you think it's a good time to buy right now? Why is that? So we have those discussions around the dinner table, which I think just makes them a little bit more curious.

Jamila Souffrant 28:46

Yeah. And you know, I think for a lot of people, like even myself, honestly, like I talk about money, I have a platform about money. And for me hearing these ideas, I'm just like, oh, that's such a great idea. I need to implement that I need to do that. Because the kids right now they're at that age, they're six, four and two, where it's like, now's the time to start. You know, they have 529 accounts and investment account, but like for them to now physically be in charge of money. And I think for a lot of people too, it's just implementing them. Like they know some of this stuff. Some of this, maybe they're hearing for the first time and you're like, oh, but I feel like for me a barrier has been just like time like, Okay, this is going to take some planning and timing and of course, like the word like, like there's not a million other things on my list to do. And I think that happens for a lot of people where it's just like my mom growing up, she took me to open up an account, but she didn't have time just like people listening. Now maybe they're a single parent, single mom. They don't feel like they maybe have the time to dedicate as much but I guess it's important to understand that we have to figure out a way to implement some of this stuff. If we're raising kids. We want them to be financially ahead then where we are we have to figure out how to put it in our schedules.

Adam Carroll 29:54

I could not agree more and I think as a suggestion to do that just in kind of on the fly. Is that There are teachable moments happening all the time. And one of those teachable moments might be when you swipe a card at the grocery store, and you turn to your child and say, Now, where does this come from? Where does the money go? Where does it come from? And how would we use this effectively? Or what do you notice when I use this? Where do you think the money is coming from? Because some kids, if you were to ask kindergarten children, where does money come from, they'd say, the machine out in front of the bank, you go to it, you push in a number and out pops money. At one point, and I mentioned this in my TED talk, I used Apple Pay for the first time. And I was like, blown away, this is so easy. I just hit it on the on the, you know, the terminal, it takes money right out of my account. And my son said, I can't wait to get a phone so that I can pay for stuff. And I was like, hold up, hold up. This is not how you pay for stuff. And so there are teachable moments that we can have conversations when we drive through the bank or the credit union, when we buy something online. When we're price shopping. When we click coupons, we get something in the mail. We are constantly either teaching our kids, consciously or unconsciously, because our children are picking up what we're doing. Every single day. They're mindful of it, just like you said, You are watching your mom do things that were subconsciously impacting who you are today. And some people that's a good thing. And some people they're like, I do not want to be like my parents. I'm going to go spend spend spend because I hated pinching pennies growing up.

Jamila Souffrant 31:30

Yeah, yeah. So in terms of like, you know, you as you've grown up listening to this, right, who they're already had those experiences subconscious or talk to them about money, and they recognize some patterns or things about themselves. How does one begin to almost reparent themselves in the way they view money is, is it possible? I know it's possible, but just asking kind of the question, how do you break that cycle that was passed down to you maybe the negative money aspects?

Adam Carroll 31:58

Yes, I think first, there's probably a number of ways to do this to Jamila. So what I'm saying is definitely not like, here's the prescription of how you do it. But I worked with a money coach, a very good friend of mine by the name of Nick Durer, who is a brilliant, brilliant dude. Young and wise, but beyond his years, and Nick posed the question to me if money were a person, if money walked through the door right now, what would it look like? And what would your relationship to it be? And some of the answers when I asked that of other people, they'll say, oh, money looks like a mob boss. Money looks like this really attractive woman across the bar that I'm afraid to go talk to. Some people have told me that money is in, you know, all buttoned up suit and tie carrying a briefcase, but very intimidating. And whatever the answer is, it's somewhat indicative of what your relationship to money is. So if somebody says, Oh, it's a mob boss, in my mind that that relationship might be I'm afraid of it, or it's shady, or, you know, can't be trusted. Someone who says, well, it's it's all buttoned down in a suit in a briefcase, if you don't align yourself with that image, or maybe you're a female and you see money as a male, subconsciously, you may think, oh, women don't have money men do, which is could not be farther from the truth. But that may be something you heard growing up, even in passing, like, I don't have any cash, go ask your dad, he always has money. And the the message that you took out of that is men have money, women don't, or vice versa. And so we got to just dig into like, what are the money stories we've been telling ourselves, and then start to supplant whatever that messaging is. For me, it's money comes easily and frequently.

Jamila Souffrant 33:41

So what is the what is your person look like? Or if money was a person,

Adam Carroll 33:45

you know, it's funny. It's a friend of mine. He's also a bald dude. So I'm a bald dude. He's a bald dude. He's a little bit older than me. But he's a multimillionaire, runs a business has tons of fun tons of friends. And money is like, it's irrelevant to him. He lives his life, he does what he does. He's super passionate about certain things as these great hobbies, but he does not sweat it a bit. And he's very generous. And to me, that is the relationship I want to have. So whenever I see him, or I imagine money, I see him and I think we have so much fun when we're together. We just have a great time. And so that's my relationship to money. It's abundant. And I can't wait for that, you know, for that money person to show up in my life again.

Jamila Souffrant 34:28

Okay, so I'm gonna just what does it mean? Cuz I just tried to think of my money person and I thought of a clown. I don't know what that means. That someone? Yeah. And so what would that make me because I'm thinking that I'm thinking a clown, because, like, they're joking around and it's like it here today. Maybe not like, you know, hey, you don't like it's pull. It's give and take, and also not very serious, but it's like the clown playing around like, the money is there. Sometimes I'll show it to you. Sometimes I won't. I'm just like playing around. I don't know what that means. Someone Maybe listening will be like trying to,

Adam Carroll 35:02

you know, what I would do is I would unpack How is your mom with money? How is your dad with money? Did you ever do things? Like, did they take you to the circus? Or did they take you where there would be clowns that maybe in your mind, it's like, oh, that's where you go to have fun or money equals fun? It could be any one of those things.

Jamila Souffrant 35:20

Yeah, it's interesting. Well, I'll, I'll think about that a bit more. So I every one, I want you to think about what money looks like for you. I think that's a really interesting exercise. Okay, so one of the other questions that you say everyone should ask themselves is why money is important to them. So why is money important to you? Why should everyone ask themselves this question on the surface seem very basic. But like, what, let's, let's dig into that question.

Adam Carroll 35:43

Some of this goes back to how I was raised. And what I saw growing up, my dad worked very hard all his life, and was able to retire and, you know, has a comfortable retirement with my mom. But one of the things that I noticed growing up was, he was very tied to work. He was very tied to having to be gone having to, incidentally, I kind of followed in his footsteps in some of my work modalities. But I think what I what a equated money and why money was important was money gave you choices, and options and flexibility. And so part of what I mentioned earlier about traveling to Europe and spending a month in Italy, were most people would say, Well, how on earth do you do that? Money is how you do that, you know, creating time freedom is how you do that. I wanted to have relationship freedom with my kids and my wife to go do that. But money was what it made it made it all possible. So for money that for me the reason money is important. My Why is it gives us choices, and options and flexibility. And and you know, one of those, any one of those would be in my top five core values. by the very nature of acquiring wealth or creating resources, passive income streams, whatever it may be. One of my goals was, how can I fulfill this core value of freedom and flexibility?

Jamila Souffrant 37:02

Yeah, yeah. Cuz you know that that going back to what you think money is going to get you right? So like, if someone says the goal is to buy the car, or the bag was just not a problem, you like that stuff? But or to have a million dollars, right? Like, what is the I always go back to what is the feeling that you're trying to attain, like, the feeling is security, if you know, if there's ever a thing of security nowadays, or at least security from immediate, you know, being at least being a cover your expenses in case something happens, right and pay your bills, or the feeling of having the car or the nice bag is like a feeling of pride and a sense of ownership in something and you know, proving to others and maybe yourself that you you're at a status level, whatever that is. So I think it's important to really, like keep asking the deeper questions on, it's not like, okay, I want I want time to travel. But what is that feeling that you're going after? Like, what is keep going deeper into what it what it means for you?

Adam Carroll 37:59

I mentioned Nick, before my friend in the money coach, he would ask that question. So tell me why money is important to you? And you would say, well, like because I want it to be able to travel. Okay, why is that important to you? Well, because I like to explore Okay, and why is that important to you? Because my mind is opened all sorts of new things. And why is that important to you? And eventually, you ask it seven or eight times, and you might get to the heart of it, which is ultimately that? Oh, money is money actually allows me to explore curiosity? Or money is, you know, my way of changing the generational history of my family, or what you know, it's going to be something and you're going to find it, but you do have to keep peeling the onion back.

Jamila Souffrant 38:41

Yeah, yeah. So, one, it's also talked to you because I know you know, you run a business, what you do full time you write books, and like your idea of financial independence, like where you are on the path, like, so. Are you at a point where if you literally said I'm not doing any of this anymore, I just want to like hang out? Could you do that? And if so, what motivates you to keep doing your work? And then if not, like, Where do you see yourself on the path to financial independence?

Adam Carroll 39:07

Yeah, part of the reason that that I'm I'm intrigued by everyone's answer, when you ask this question is, I was told years ago that wealth is actually a component of time. And so the amount of wealth that you have, you can equate back to how long can you live your existing lifestyle before the money runs out? And so everything that I always did, and I think the, I think the FIRE, philosophy and methodology, kind of the mentality around FIRE is a is kind of a byproduct of this or an offshoot of this. How long can you last given your current set of of expenses, before the money runs out? For me, it's decades, I could live decades at this point. Before the money run out living exactly as my wife and I live right now. And we're looking forward at the prospect of you know, our kids leave the home when you're kids leave, it gets a lot cheaper to live. I think we may travel a lot more and go out to eat more. But but at the outset, I think it's going to be cheaper to live. candidly, I think we are very, very close to fire where we could just pull the ripcord and be like, Okay, now we're, we're good to go. What keeps me going, is, number one, I'm a writer. And I'm, and I love to speak, I'm a, you know, I get paid to be a professional speaker most of the days. And I always have a story to tell. So because people pay me to tell stories, I love telling stories, I don't think that I'll ever quit doing that. And I love to write because there's a guy named Jim Rohn, he used to say that what people will know you by in the future is our pictures and our words. And so for me, the more I can write, and the more I can sort of tell my story or other people's stories, the longer the message last. So in short, we're really close to fire. But I also don't know that I'll ever stop doing what I'm doing.

Jamila Souffrant 41:02

Yeah. And I think that's like that, that beauty of it is when you're doing something already. And I think this can be the goal for everyone, even if you're not going to use complete financial independence and timeframe you want is to find that thing that you can do that even if you did reach financial independence, you want to still do it. And because I always think I started a journey to launch to chronicle and show like my path. And then it became almost a catalyst to helping me reach financial independence. Like, that's the goal now. But like, if and when not, if, when I reach my goals, my financial independence goals, how would I change? What would I do differently? What Journey to Launch like, I would love to say that right now, like I'm doing exactly what I would do if I was financially independent, but I'm not like, just like, there, I have to the business has to earn money for me to be able to continue to do this. So they're probably things that if I really had like the option not to do like, I would be like, I'm not doing that, right. So I feel like my options would change. And so I feel like people are in this position, where they're trying to figure out, what is it that I'm doing? And how can I live a life that I enjoy now, but I still have to, like, reach my goals, and compromise a little bit, like balancing that with this idea of but like living that free life before you get to independence?

Adam Carroll 42:15

Yeah, I think the question that people need to ask is, how quickly do I want it. So if you said, I really want to hit this goal, and I'm gonna hit it in the next 24 months, it definitely changes what you need to do versus if you said, and I know, you threw out a million dollars, I think Ramit threw out a million dollars. And you get to that point. And it's like, Okay, what next? Okay, it's there. And how does it make me feel some people candidly, Jamila feel just as insecure, with a million dollars in the bank as they do $100 in the bank. And at that level, what I would say is, the insecurity is not coming from money, it's coming from something else that you've really got to work on and dig down deep and, you know, zoom to get rid of it. Because at some point, you're going to be, you know, you're going to be good. I think he had to ask how fast do I want to do it? Because, you know, to be quite candid, my wife and I could be driving luxury cars, and living in a bigger home, and taking lavish vacations, but we wouldn't have hit the number that we set for ourselves as early as we did. And so, you know, all of those things will have, it's just down the road, and I'm okay with that. Maybe down the road, maybe it's not maybe like, No, I dig my Nissan. It's cool. I like a car. 100,000 miles on it.

Jamila Souffrant 43:31

Yeah, yeah. And I like and we can kind of just end on this note, because I think it's important to understand, like, what you what you said, and it's hard for people to like, see it, like the people who say, Oh, don't worry about the money, but then they already have money, even like, you know, running a business and like getting to a point where it's really successful. And then you look back and you just like, Oh, these are the things I would not have done. But then people are like, well, you wouldn't have got there if you didn't do these things. So don't tell me as the person trying to, like attain this, not to like do this. So I think it's important, though, that people are really understanding that yes, it will feel good to be debt free, it will feel good to, you know, have $100,000 a million dollars in your investments. But whatever that is insecurity, like you said, or those traumas or demons that are plaguing you now outside of being able to like cover food on the table, like they are still going to be there. They're gonna be magnified, the more you have, because you have more to lose, like you have more to lose when you have more. So it's interesting.

Adam Carroll 44:27

And I want to touch on really quick your your comment about what happens when you're, you hit all the goals, does your business change? And I think the difference is that right now, I saw someone describe it this way right now you're a reporter. So you're reporting on all the things that you're doing and even in interviewing other professionals in this industry, you're reporting on them. So you're effectively a reporter, but once you hit it, you become the guide. And the guide is the one that leads everyone to this place of financial freedom, the journey to launch So you're you're literally setting everyone's Launchpad for them as a reporter, and you'll be the rocket fuel when you're their guide, as you've hit it, because it's like, Listen, this is what I did. And this is how you're going to go through it.

Jamila Souffrant 45:12

Right? And of course, everyone always say this. Everyone has their own unique path. Like it's never going to be the exact same thing. But you can take things that you hear. I'm used to tools that apply to you or that can apply and try them out. Leave what doesn't apply, leave what you don't like to make it work. All right, this was an amazing conversation. I know journeyers will love this. Please tell everyone where they can find out more about you.

Adam Carroll 45:34

Well, if you want information on Adam Carroll, go to Adam Cafrol, two R's, two L's and my last name dot info, adamcarroll.info, And everything's there. The TED Talk is there. I did a documentary on student loan debt, you can watch that there, as well as a previous pretty, pretty copious amount of podcast episodes and articles and things like that. So adamcarroll.info .

Jamila Souffrant 45:57

Awesome. And I will definitely link all that in the episode show notes. Thanks so much, Adam, for this enlightening conversation.

Adam Carroll 46:02

Yeah, Jamila. Thanks for having me.

Jamila Souffrant 46:08

Okay, I hope you guys enjoyed that conversation with Adam. I know I got a lot of aha moments from it. Hopefully you did, too. Now, when you think about your life, and what you want your life to be, I want you to really, really think about how we talked about describing and building a life from within? How can you build a bigger life? How can you enjoy your current journey? Right? So with the debt you have, with maybe working in a job you're not completely in love with? while you're still on this journey? How can you enjoy it and live a life that you love?

Okay, here's the DCU Tip of the Week, do a fall cleaning, now's a great time to see what you have around the house that you no longer need. Consider selling furniture, or co signing clothing that's in good shape for extra cash and make sure you put that extra money to your savings goals.

If you want to check out the episode shownotes that's where you can get links to anything that's mentioned, and even get a transcribed version of this episode that you can read. Go to journeytolaunch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode. Now you can also still grab your free journeyer jumpstart guide by texting, launch 33777 or go to journeytolaunch.com/jumpstart.

If you want to support me and the podcast and love the free content and information that you get here, here are four ways that you can support me in the show. One, make sure you're subscribed to the podcast wherever you listen, whether that's Apple podcasts, that purple app on your phone, your Android device, YouTube, Spotify, wherever it is that you happen to listen, just subscribe so you're not missing an episode. And if you're happening to listen to this in Apple podcasts, rate, review, and subscribe there. I appreciate and read every single review. Number two follow me on my social media accounts. I'm @journeytolaunch on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. And I love love love interacting with journeyers. They're three support and check out the sponsors of this show. If you hear something that interests you, sponsors are the main ways we keep the podcast lights on here. So show them some love for supporting your girl. Four, and last but not least, share this episode this podcast with a friend or family member or co-worker so that we can spread the message of journey to launch. Alright, that's it. Until next week, keep on journeying journeyers.

Jamila Souffrant 0:00

You're listening to the Journey to Launch Podcast How Lawrence Amassed a Six Figure Net Worth and Doubled His Income to Six Figures.

Intro 0:12

Welcome to the Journey to Launch Podcast with your host Jamila Souffrant. As a money expert who walks her talk, she helps brave Journeyers like you get out of debt, save, invest and build real wealth. Join her on the journey to launch to financial freedom.

Jamila Souffrant 0:39

Hey, hey, hey journeyers. As always, I am excited to bring you this week's episode of the podcast. Now on the podcast this week, we have Lawrence Gonzalez, who is also known as a neighborhood finance guy. He's also a journeyer. He listens to the podcast and he follows me on Instagram. He always is really great about tagging me on Instagram @Journeytolaunch that's where I hang out most socially letting me know when he's listened to an episode. So I went digging to his page and saw that he had an amazing personal finance story himself that he went from a negative net worth to a positive net worth. So went from six figures of negative network to six figures positive net worth, also was able to more than double his income. So now he's earning six figures. And he just has a really good way on his page and in his blog explaining what he's doing, like giving concrete tips and relatable information to help with financial literacy and freedom. So I thought, let me invite Lawrence on the podcast. And it's pretty cool because Lauren is also Haitian. I am not Haitian, I'm Jamaican, but my husband is Haitian. So I just thought it was pretty cool that we had a connection on that level. So I'm really excited for you to hear this episode.

Just a little bit more about Lawrence, Lawrence is the creator of the NeighborhoodFinanceGuide.com which provides financial empowerment tips and general tax guidance. He also shares his journey to Financial Freedom and Independence there. He has a strong passion for giving back to the community and has over a decade of experience working with schools and organizations through mentoring, event programming, and curriculum writing. Lawrence is a proud Haitian- American and is a decorated veteran Sergeant of the United States Marine Corps.

First a word from our sponsor DCU, also known as Digital Federal Credit Union. Now at their core credit unions were founded on the philosophy of people helping people for individuals that might find themselves part of the underbanked or underserved communities. Credit Unions offer individuals a safe place to manage their finances or help fund purchases as an alternative to other financial service providers like payday lenders. At DCU the credit union places and enhance focus on financial education by offering learning modules on key financial topics like budgeting, saving for the unexpected, building credit and much more. DCU also offers a secured credit card that could help individuals establish or improve their credit by borrowing securely against their savings balance. To learn more, check out dcu.org and stick around to the end of the show for a new segment called the DCU money tips of the week, where I'll be sharing tips to help you save and manage your money so you can reach your goals.

Okay, journeyers. I'm excited to have a fellow journeyer in the rocket chair. This week, I have Lawrence Gonzalez, better known as the neighborhood finance guy on Instagram, hi,Lawrence.

Lawrence Gonzalez 3:41

Hey, how's everybody doing.

Jamila Souffrant 3:45

Good. So okay, we follow each other on Instagram. And that's why I feel like I first connected with you and you're always really supportive of the podcast and my work. And I remember, I don't know how it went about, we probably were exchanging some sort of correspondence and on dm or maybe I responded to you. And I said, Why don't you like, here's the link to come on the show, but that was like a while ago. So before we press record, you were saying you were surprised to see that I emailed you back and was like, Yeah, come on the show.

Lawrence Gonzalez 4:12

Yeah, I was kind of like, Oh, snap surprise. It's 2020 a lot of things go weird. So this is actually the positive you like, oh, there's something good happening today. It's actually good.

Jamila Souffrant 4:20

Yeah, well, so I first of all, I gotta be honest, like, it's funny, because whenever I get to like talk to a Black man on the show, I'm always excited, honestly, because I have a lot of women on the show and I have a lot of Black woman and some white men. And when I was like looking back at like my roster of guests, like it's not that many Black men, they're Black men, obviously in this space and that I'm cool with and they're gonna be on the show, but I'm always just like, I want to like represent for the Black men. And on top of that you're Haitian. So what's up "sak pase?"

Lawrence Gonzalez 4:51

"N'ap boule"

Jamila Souffrant 4:54

And just to give you a background on that my husband is Haitian I do not speak Creole. Hence, My last name is Souffrant But it's his fault. I don't speak Creole. It's not my fault. It's like all on him.

Lawrence Gonzalez 5:04

Yeah, I'll put the blame on him. And I think the first time I actually saw or spotted you, I'm like, Jamila Souffrant that's like that's a Haitian last name. And I think she has to be Haitian but I was like, I guess she's not because she never reps Haiti. We have a big thing in the Haitian culture, like you always are gonna see the flag somewhere.

Jamila Souffrant 5:21

Go hard. Let me tell you something, y'all go hard. So I am married into the culture. But you know, I represent for Jamaica, like always, but the reason why I wanted you on the show Lawrence is because one, you have a really, I think, nice way of breaking down numbers and finance your, your page very educational. And then even when you sent me information, like your background, I was reading through it and we're gonna get through all of that, guys. I was like, you do so much you've done so much. And so we're going to talk about how you went from a negative six figure like in debt, like net worth, to positive like net worth, your background, how it lends itself to your auditor, you work in the community, you have all these things about you that I think help you explain and talk to people when it comes to money. So I can't wait to get into with you.

Lawrence Gonzalez 6:04

Definitely excited to do so too.

Jamila Souffrant 6:07

All right, so let's hop into just when you started the Neighborhood Finance Guy, because you have such like a history and like in the community, you were in the military, and you have a full time job, like what made you decide to start like a personal finance, component or brand, as a part of what you do, because I feel like you seem so busy already.

Lawrence Gonzalez 6:26

Well, I guess in the Marine Corps, we always kind of busy, but we really have more time to actually do a lot more, I think we just naturally just do more than a lot of people, you just like to get engaged, we'd like to stay active. And this is something I like to do. And I started the Neighborhood Finance Guy probably way back in 2012, when I really realized that I had a problem with my money. And that happened at one point, it was one because I saw that I had $125,000 of student loan debt, that's on top of on top of everything I was dealing with as far as credit card debt of like $5,000, because I was at the max, they couldn't give me any more. So that's the only reason I was there. So I was having problems and I went to mit.com. And I pulled up my guess the expense ratio, you start seeing how you spending out your money all all over the place, and you start noticing the pattern, then I did the math yet again, pull out excel sheet, use the math looked at it. And I realized I was spending about $375 a month on average on food by myself. At the time, I was living in a four bedroom situation, in Tallahassee, you know, basically college town. So that's kind of how we, we all kind of have our spaces. So we're there and all the other guys while I'm cooking generally for everybody else, and everybody's eating, everybody's having a good time. And I'm calculating their money because they all eat out in different ways. It turns out, we were spending about $2,400 a month on food. That was the average that we were pulling off when I told those guys that and they just kind of looked at me like, Ah, you're crazy. And they really went on their merry way. Because I couldn't express to them how much money we're spending, I had to figure out a new way to I guess educate them on what was going on. So that's how I got into this little financial literacy space. Because I was like, I need to know enough for this information. So I could teach them what's going on. So they could understand a little bit more. So every time I said something like a 401k. They're like what? So I had to go figure out some other way to figure it. So to do this, either excel sheets didn't work. I started doing like drawings, if I had to, I started calling them on the phone I had to is literally telling them anything and everything.

Jamila Souffrant 8:34

Okay, so let's go back then. So at that point, you were in $125,000 worth of debt at that point when you started to realize how much you were spending and that was mostly student loans. So what did you go to school for?

Lawrence Gonzalez 8:46

I went to school for a master's in accounting specializing in taxation. Wow. Okay, it sounds fancy, but I never really finished. Because I literally was coming up with so much money that it just felt like there's something wrong and I needed to start working to actually pay it off.

Jamila Souffrant 9:01

You mean you are accumulating a lot of debt?

Lawrence Gonzalez 9:04

Yes, it was too much that it was way too much. And there was no end in sight. I think I had like four more credit hours, or almost like a whole half year to complete. And that I didn't know exactly how much that would cost. And I was like, I need to figure out how to get a job as soon as possible.

Jamila Souffrant 9:18

Okay, and I'm gonna go a little bit back deeper into your story, because I feel like a lot of people can relate. So you actually grew up in Haiti, right?

Lawrence Gonzalez 9:25

Yes, yes, I was born in Miami, but my mom was a single mom and she couldn't take care of us. So she sent me and my older sister was like two years older than me at the time. I was 11 months. So they sent me there. I had, I still had no idea who my mom really was until nine years later. That's how long I spent in Haiti. So and even when I was coming to America, it was actually funny cuz my aunt told me her you want to go on vacation? And then she pointed at like Florida, and she said, Oh, go to Disney. Where I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a lie. She packed everything I had and sent me back home.

Jamila Souffrant 9:55

So sent you back to Miami?

Lawrence Gonzalez 9:57

Yes.

Jamila Souffrant 9:58

Wow, it's so so interesting. It's like the reverse. Kinda like way because typically like, so I'm also child of immigrant but I was actually left behind in Jamaica while my mom established herself in the United States. But I guess it was cheaper for your mom to have you in Haiti. And that's, I mean, that happens often a lot to like and sent you probably back money and things to help raise you from afar.

Lawrence Gonzalez 10:18

Yeah, I didn't have I had no idea who she was for, until like, maybe at eight years old, she came to town kind of visit. And I was like, Oh, this is our mom and my sisters. Like, yeah, that's our mom. So she had to confirm, like who she was, cause we never saw her the entire time.

Jamila Souffrant 10:33

So when you came here at night, so I'm going back to like, kind of get your money story and how you got to the point where you went to college, which a lot of us do, like, you know, you're entering college, and then you're getting advanced degrees. And you're, you know, you're trying to change the cycle of whatever it is with your family and wealth. And so you're gonna do as whatever you can to get ahead. But then we're not taught about student loan debt, or maybe making the best choices when it comes to like the school versus the tuition costs. So at what point, you said that you realize it was like too much money, but like that you were spending. So like, you never finished that degree, you just said,

Lawrence Gonzalez 11:06

I never finished that degree. That's something I had to come clean with everybody all the time that even though I learned enough about it, at some point, it just the debt becomes so much it's suffocates you, and you realize there's something has to give you like, do I take on the additional 10? More, maybe another 20? More thousand dollars? Because graduate school credits are a lot more expensive? They're about $1,000 per hour,

Jamila Souffrant 11:28

right? Where are you working at the time, we're going to grad school full time,

Lawrence Gonzalez 11:31

I was just going to grad school full time at a time.

Jamila Souffrant 11:33

So then, on top of that, you had to like have loans for your living expenses. It's not like you know, and no income. So okay, what do you do? Because at this point, like six figures of student loan debt, you don't have your finished degree. What were you thinking at that time, like to get out of this

Lawrence Gonzalez 11:48

Impure genius moment, I decided to take out my 401k, from my military time that I spent overseas, so I was like, Oh, I have $5,000, I'll use that, to get me a CPA degree. So by by studying for the license, and I spent all that money. So I took on that initial fee, which when you're withdraw for 401k, you're gonna get that fee, and then eventually, the year after they hit you with another fee, because that's when you see it in your taxes again, so you see it twice. So I took that money I tried to study but I was still so frazzled with everything. I was trying to live my life trying to pay off bills, trying to really just focus, couldn't do it. And I had to go get a job. And the first job or the only job I was able to get was paying $23,000 before taxes.

Jamila Souffrant 12:33

Wow. And what Job was that?

Lawrence Gonzalez 12:35

That was at the Florida Department of Agricultural, basically the admin Secretary job. It was a glorified admin secretary, but I was there. And it was the only job and I was grateful for it. It was one of those days, especially in Florida, if you know about it, like we don't we sometimes have like roll down windows and no AC while it's raining. So even that day was happening. Everything was that was worse. That was happening. It was happening at one time, right. So I just took the job. And I thought it was the best job I could ever, I guess achieve at the time and started working from there.

Jamila Souffrant 13:07

So what year was this?

Lawrence Gonzalez 13:08

This was back in 2012. Shortly after in the fall, I got that job making 23. I worked there for six months, I started tweaking my resume at the same time learning the language of a resume. So how do you express this in just one page, and almost to a point of mastery, I sent it to somebody else, and I got a job, I guess another job an elevated job paying $32,000 a year. Okay. Then shortly after that, six months later, I did the same thing as I was kind of like, you know, doing my documents working my paperwork. And I did my resume again. One of the ladies says, Hey, you should apply for the higher level position. Okay, all right, cool. I applied for it. I got rejected because I was there for such a short amount of time. So I went back to my desk and apply for a job working for the government. And lo and behold, I got this, I got a job making $64,000, six months later,

Jamila Souffrant 14:02

from the $32,000 job.

Lawrence Gonzalez 14:04

Yes.

Jamila Souffrant 14:04

Okay. So that's like, double of what you were making before. And I want to like just point out things for people because I always like to, like, have people think, Okay, how does this apply to me? So you were able to take whatever skill sets you were bringing on or having and using at your current situation, your job, put that in the resume form. So you have to understand how to like write your resume in the proper way. And you probably have to tailor it to the places you were sending it to. So you know, you knew exactly what they were looking for. But I think that's that's incredible that you doubled your income.

Lawrence Gonzalez 14:34

Yeah, I don't think during that process, too. I'd learned it's not just I was doing my own resume. I started learning these techniques. And I started saying, guys, do you know our techniques, like our resume suck, we need to actually fix them because nobody was actually reading their their resumes. There's a lot of grammatical errors in there. There's a lot of just bad information. Let's say if you were majorette in high school, I'm like, Why is this here? It was like because I did it. I worked at McDonald's when I was in high school that was in there at it take that out, I had to literally learn what's important on the resume. Even if it goes from a three page to just a one page. If a one page is more effective, that's what you need, right? So I started helping everybody that I can with their own resumes as well. So they'll just send me their resumes, I'll review it. And that helped me process you know, almost language better. Like what can I do better about my resume? What can I do better on a, an interview? How can I actually help other people as well? So as you help other people, sometimes, it also helps you?

Jamila Souffrant 15:29

Oh, yes, I love that. So what was this job that you started making? $64,000 in

Lawrence Gonzalez 15:35

this job...64 are the current job that I have right now as an auditor? Okay, so I stayed up there. And now I guess now they promoted me to $109,000.

Jamila Souffrant 15:46

Okay, so six figure income at this point, starting from in 2012. A $23,000? income?

Lawrence Gonzalez 15:52

Yes, yes. So it's definitely not the end for everybody. It's not the end.

Jamila Souffrant 15:56

So it sounds like to like so you still found your way, Seems like you were always good at math and numbers, because you still find your way into like, the auditing field. So you had tried and you know, I think this is interesting. So you tried like the degree you tried to CPA, so the CPA thing never worked out? From what I hear

Lawrence Gonzalez 16:11

the CPA thing never worked out? Not yet. Still need to work on it.

Jamila Souffrant 16:14

Okay, so I find that interesting, because sometimes people have this like one way of like, Okay, if I had a vision of being a lawyer, and so they thought that lawyers only way to go, but then these skill sets that it takes to be an amazing lawyer that you can use in other areas of the field, or just totally separately. And so some people would have like, given up and they're just like, Well, you know, I have an interest in math, but like, I can't complete these things that I'm starting. But you still found a way to use what you love and this passion you have for numbers into your job that you have now. I would love to talk through that a little bit.

Lawrence Gonzalez 16:46

Yeah, part of it is really trying to figure out what works best for you. So for me, testing might not be the thing. But I'm very creative. And I'm very much like, if anything happens, you know, as far as like, critical things are happening around me, I'm very much very relaxed. So I could actually come up with solutions very quick. It's not as valuable on the test. But as far as in, you know, work conversation, different people, or what I need to do at work at a how I need to think about something creatively, that's what I do. So I do understand anybody that feels that, hey, this didn't work out, that didn't work out. And it's true, maybe it's just not your style. But even at my job, currently, my HR makes more than me, my HR Secretary makes more than me, that's because you don't have to be the auditor at the job. You don't have to be the accountant, you don't have to be the lawyer, you just have to, you know, basically seek a better life for yourself that actually works. Sometimes your skills and what you have innately might be different from what you perceive your life should be.

Jamila Souffrant 17:44

Hmm.

Right, right. Because I think too, like the construct of where we live, it is you know, especially kids, I have kids in school, it's all about, you know, like right knee, get the test, you know, sit straight, get the hundred on a test, and not everyone learns and displays their gifts in that way. And when you're conditioned in this manner, and you're not succeeding in the ways that society wants you to succeed, and I think it can lead you to discount what it is that you're actually good at. So it takes like the understanding of really Alright, like, what are my strengths? And how can I still use that to earn me more money and live my life?

Lawrence Gonzalez 18:20

Yeah, that's exactly right. Because for me, it's about being a strategist. I think that's really my passion. This is what I do. I understand some things schematic wise, that could bring into something I can actually use. And what really sparked me a little bit was my grandmother, because thinking about her, and it's like, okay, I can't make $23,000 work. I was like, Lawrence, you have seen somebody that that done that your grandmother never made more than $23,000. She had six kids. She lived a great life. And so how did she do it? How did she pull it off? I started thinking about what was my grandmother doing? What's her daily routine, like? They did meal prep all the time. We didn't call it meal prep back then it wasn't his fancy term. It was just the way that they were doing it. That's how they live. They live below their means because they didn't have a lot. So they were very economical about how they do things. They even bartered a lot. They bartered services, they always did side hustling all these new terms, right? These new like ways of life that were there. My grandmother did all of those things. A lot of Caribbean parents did all those things all the time.

Jamila Souffrant 19:19

Yeah, it's so crazy. It's just like sometimes with like, personal finance, especially the financial independence movement like that, you know, you're coming up with all these hacks, and it's like, Listen, this is what we like, our family has been doing this like, I didn't necessity not because of choice and I think it puts us in such a unique opportunity and perspective. Like I know like living in today's world with today's you know, nice dog niceties we can have and then just like especially if you live in a high cost of area living like the standards are a little bit different. And I find like there's two things happening there is that well, my like my mom grew up at some point she didn't have running water like we're, you know how she grew up and she grew up very poor. And so are a lot of people you experienced that were your parents or your grandparents. experience that so then to come and to a place where you're saying I'm choosing to actually live really below my means. They're like, we didn't work this hard for you to like, not look like you don't have anything like, you know, you buy the house like drive the nice car some something right? Like they want you to they don't want to see you struggle, because they equate kind of like what they came from and something that you shouldn't have to do. And then I feel like it's the people who are like doing this, and they don't have a choice. So how can we use that to our advantage?

Lawrence Gonzalez 20:27

I think part of it is to trying to find out what you really love to do. I don't know if it was one of your podcasts you're actually speaking on, cause I typically run. Well listen to these podcasts, I can't write any notes. But ultimately, it's a matter of finding what you really love to do. Some people think that they need a big home, but you have to think, Okay, how do you clean this big home? Some people think that they want to entertain, it's like, I want to go find a home so I can buy it. So I can entertain people, but then realize you have kids and you don't entertain anybody because you're just at home, and you're enjoying your life. So there's all these different things that we need to start dissecting away from our understanding, even if my mom calls me and says, Hey, you need to buy a, a four bedroom home and like with what kids, I have to start, like, you know, defining those parameters, not to say that I don't want to live up, you know, against a better life all the time. But in the end of the day, but this is the life for me, I love it. I have a fridge with food in there. And I'm very grateful for that. So sometimes it's not as like, crazy, you do not have to be the Joneses to actually live a life that you deserve and that you love. Every day you wake up with your soul relax, you're so stress free. This is exactly what people really want in their lives.

Jamila Souffrant 21:33

Yes, it's that yes, that feeling that security the options like so if I choose to, you know, live poor, right, I'm just like, quote unquote, poor you know, like, really on less like, that's my choice. But it's to have the choice, I think is from what most people want. So okay, now you're making Well, we've kind of skipped ahead to where you're like making six figures. But like even before that, now, you're not paying off your debt. How long did that take you?

Lawrence Gonzalez 21:57

still paying off my debt. So I think there's still that's happening all the time, I'm getting married. And turns out as of like, two days ago, my fiance told me cuz I literally thought we're done paying for stuff. And so she said, Oh, we got an additional 10 grand to pay, you know, November, I almost died in that chair. I was so shocked. Wow, I didn't know where my money was coming from. But ultimately, debt is something for me I live with, it's very manageable. And certainly very simple. I have enough assets that cover me. But ultimately how we process it is, first we tackle the credit card debt that we have that are 24%/25%, we start knocking that down as soon as possible. If we could get a credit card with zero APR that could afford you a little bit more time as you figure things out. We also me and my fiance we tackled on undergraduate student loans, so we she's basically debt free. Technically, she could she could say that, me, I still have the $90,000 in graduate school debt, that's under public student loan forgiveness plan. So that's a little bit more time that's up like five more years, and then I'll be done with that. But everything else that we have, we maximize that we make a fair use of it, we do a lot with our 401k or IRAs or HSA are maxed out and are even taxable brokerage accounts are also max as well.

Jamila Souffrant 23:13

So I think this is actually a great example of still having debt and investing at the same time and reaching your financial goals. Because there's some like experts that are just like pay down all your debt, but you know, it's okay to strategically hold debt, especially if it's like a low interest rate. Or if you're in a like a public loan forgiveness program where you expect it to, you know, from some of it to be forgiven. There's a strategy to that, and it's okay, so I love that you're saying even though you have debt, you have found a way to manage it, which I feel like some people just need to like work through just living with it while they're paying it off. But also, while they're investing and accumulating wealth,

Lawrence Gonzalez 23:47

yeah, because if I only focused on paying down all the $125,000, I would not be as far as I am today, I actually own a home, I have a rental property, I also have a small business starting up. So all these little things would not have happened if all my focus was just on paying down the debt, I'll likely be in this year, done paying it off if I actually did it just straight for. And I would never accumulated anything in my 401k nothing of the matching contributions, none of the tax savings associated with the matching contributions. None of that would be there. It just be I'd be debt free. And I guess I'd be happy. But I wouldn't have anything to actually even purchase a home after that. It would take me some time as well. So I'll learn throughout the process that is just not as great for everybody.

Jamila Souffrant 24:34

Yeah, and I and that's the thing. There's some people who being debt free at all costs, like that's all that matters, and they'll worry about building the assets on the other side, right? And I'm more probably like you were even if I had debt, or you know, I have my mortgage now. Like I'm still gonna aggressively invest at the same time, if I can. So I love that this is a unique journey is everyone's journey is going to be unique. So you may be listening and you're just like, Well, no, I need to pay off my debt. I can't like sleep at night. With this debt, but you may be thinking, you know what, like, I know I have this debt, but I also want to, like buy a home or invest in something else. Like, you can do that, too. You just have to figure out what works for you.

Lawrence Gonzalez 25:10

Yeah, I think anytime you if you're like $20,000 worth of student loan debt, yeah, that's a lot of money. But that's doable. When you start thinking about people carrying $80,000 $100,000, that's really, it's gonna take you a lot longer than that, to actually knock it down. And that's what gets a lot more difficult and could actually spiral people down the wrong path. I've worked with somebody that had the same debt story that I had, she had 80,000, I had, you know, the additional 80,000. And we're just both on there and eventually capitalize it to the 90. So we both have this and she decided to go on a debt free journey. She froze her, her credit cards, she said, You know what, I'm gonna get a personal loan to get all my credit cards, that's what she did. And a year later asked her what you know, almost like we're coming back together and try to figure out what happened a year later, I was on my way to owning a home, she actually, I guess, unfroze her credit cards at some point because she wanted to use it because she hasn't dealt with herself and what she really loved. But she really wanted to just use a credit card, she has now the credit cards, on top of the personal loan, on top of the debt. So for some people as much as we see online, the the photos, the debt free journeys, and screams and all the what the glitz and glam is, there's a lot of people that do almost fall back, and have to start all over again.

Jamila Souffrant 26:30

And this is why like the emotional and mindset part of it is so important to uncover. Again, it's a deep journey. No one can tell you, you know, we can give you our journeys. And you can see like what resonates, but no one can tell you exactly what's going to motivate you what's going to have you stick to like the goals you set, you know, the underlying even issues just from our childhood and how we were raised about money like that impact how how we are today as adults, I think it's just fascinating how two people can walk the exact same path or have the exact same maybe tools and have totally different outcomes because of their mindset and how they perceive and view things.

Lawrence Gonzalez 27:06

Oh, God, that'd be fascinating.

Jamila Souffrant 27:08

Yeah, okay, so you still have debt, but you're making progress. Like with your investments, you own a home, I love since you mentioned that you're getting married, like how your partner and you talk about money? Because you've been on this journey for a while now, when you met her was she also very financially aware or was that something you had to work together here to do?

Lawrence Gonzalez 27:29

She started off kind of like me, that we were aware that we have an issue we are we want things to get better. But for the most part, if you don't have the income level, is just gonna take you a long time. So she was living with, you know, almost like fixing the issues, but she was just still living, she was still enjoying herself. And we met at a Friendgiving, like, I guess in 2016, or something might have been 2016 2017. I'm wrong. She's gonna kill me for this. But either way, we met at a Friendgiving. And she started following me. So she see that talk about financial literacy. She didn't know a lot about it. But every time that she has a question, she'd just ask, and that to me was always kind of I guess that was the tell sign that she was the right one because she was the person that just like she went to ask, he wasn't afraid. It wasn't something that she had to hide behind. Because she had her debt. I think she had 40,000. By the time we we met, and this year, we tackled it down all the way to nothing. So it was just us talking through and understanding what matters, because all the interest that you're accumulating on the credit card or even the student loans, we could tackle that together very easy.

Jamila Souffrant 28:33

Yeah, that's the thing when you have a partner and you can get on the same page, and there's additional income, you are combining your forces together, like you can do a lot together, especially if you're on the same page about spending and cutting back or being you know, smart about things.

Lawrence Gonzalez 28:47

Oh, come on the same page. Sometimes she takes off, at least at the very beginning. I'm not gonna sugarcoat it may seem like it was all rosy. It wasn't bad. It was just like, sometimes I'd be sitting at home, you know, working from home, whatnot, she goes, she she goes to the grocery store. But then she goes to other places, on the way back. If I go to a grocery store, I go to the grocery store, and I come back, she stops every other location that she needs to. And that works out and then then I see something in our personal capital, like what was this thing? I think we got robbed. But oh, it's something that you did?

Jamila Souffrant 29:21

Well, listen, this is that's a reality for like a lot of couples. So even you know, on the same page doesn't mean like every day you're reading from the same page, it just means you know, you're generally in the same direction and you will be reading the same book, but you could maybe be on different chapters. Because you know, my husband and I like you know, while he's not as financially aware, or like of our budget as much as I am, right so we can probably even save more, if he was more like me, but he's not and he's human and that's life. And so I think for a lot of people it's important to like acknowledge that because then they think of your partner kind of goes out and does something or even you you know, you want to just enjoy or do something outside of Have the budget that maybe pushes things back a bit that you failed? And it's like, no, no. This is life, for most couples, like it's hard to just keep yourself in check. So two people, and if you have kids on top of that, that's a harder task. Don't beat yourself up if it's not perfect all the time.

Lawrence Gonzalez 30:16

Yeah, I definitely agree with that. Because sometimes I think the money nerds excel sheet, people, there tend to be like, oh, we're gonna count everything, we're gonna like line item, everything down the line. But everybody else is different. And that's why we have a different partner, sometimes our partner brings in that life that that looseness that we need anyways, so we could enjoy it. So it's not the end of the day, if something happens in that line item, I'm not really worried as much if we get robbed on the credit card, that's more of my concern. And then we work around that we have to work together to actually go to where we're gonna go.

Jamila Souffrant 30:45

Right. So what are some things that you you're doing as a couple to help you get to your goals? I know like on your account, I think one of your other posts was about like, you save or invest? Is it 50% of your income?

Lawrence Gonzalez 30:57

We're almost at 50%. Today, I actually did the the breakdown with like, 48.6% of our investment. So we're investing very aggressively. But I think at the same time, we're still living even last year, we went to 14 countries in 12 days, or was it 12 countries in 14 days? Sorry, reverse. So it's not that you cannot enjoy your life, we just have to front load what's important front loading the actual investments, putting all that money, so you could reap the the tax savings, as well as the benefits in the long run? And then you could still do what you want to do.

Jamila Souffrant 31:30

Right? Right. I love that. And you just brought up tax savings. So I did want to bring that up with you. Because So one of the ways that you guys are aggressively investing is in your pre tax retirement accounts. So you're, which is I mean, it's a game changer if you have the income to support that and even though you still have debt, so you don't have any more credit card debt. It's more just a student loan.

Lawrence Gonzalez 31:51

No, we're coming, we're coming back with some credit card debt in in November for the wedding

Jamila Souffrant 31:56

Oh, because of the wedding. Okay, but I'm sure you guys have paid that off once you focus on paying it off. But I think it's interesting because people think about investing in their 401k and maxing it out eventually, you know, as a goal. But how much tax savings that you get, not only are you investing for your future, but like you're paying less taxes because your taxable income, like decreases. So you did have a post that I wanted to just like talk through, and I'll link it in the show notes for the episode. And we don't to get too technical, because I know like it goes into the numbers a bit. But the average income for most people, like if you want to retire comfortably, like you need to make $78,000, like invest up to $9,000 a year. Do you want to talk to that?

Lawrence Gonzalez 32:37

Yes, I call Well, I'm not quite sure where I got the term, but I think they call it the magic number and think somebody hinted at it, but they never really developed it. So I ended up writing about what it is the magic number and doing the mathematical formula to prove it. So in I guess when I grew up in Haiti, that was the point of math, like you have to prove, you know why the solution is a solution. You can't just say that one plus one is one you have to say why is one plus one is one. So I have to understand that broken apart. And the US Census Bureau, I believe they do an annual survey that they release almost like every other year. So the if it's 2019, you'll see the 2017 numbers. And from those numbers, we could see that majority of the average family itself, average retirees they spend about $50,000 per year, because they spent about $50,000 per year, you could use the math to work your way back to figure out how much would you need in order to survive let's say 25 years, they say is that that's the outcome if you want to if you and your husband, your spouse, or however you want to go about it, if if you want to survive for additional 20 years and not be a financial detriment to your family, and you just want to kind of give back and actually provide. If you want to do that, then you'd have to be around $50,000 a year as price inflates themselves. So because of it, that number ends up being about if you saved it, if you did the math to $50,000 times 25 is 1.2 million. That's what you need for retirement. It sounds like a lot, but you wouldn't have to do all this heavy lifting. That's the big thing. When you take the numbers back to what it is you really just need 875,000 because the rest of that would come from Social Security. The average Social Security, I believe, is $15,000 a year. So you could work that math back and you only really need $875,000 that means an aggressive savings of about $580 per month for 30 years.

Jamila Souffrant 34:37

Okay, let's pause there because I know like we're getting into the numbers and people are like, Okay, I get that. Maybe I got that. Maybe not. But I just want to just recap what you said. So essentially, if you're thinking about averages right now, the average person based on this study spends $50,000 a year in retirement. Now if you did the math, the quick calculation and you know this how you can calculate how much you need to reach financial independence. With your portfolio, your investments have enough money to support you, you'd multiply your annual expenses by 25. So multiplying 50,000, by 25, gives you 1.25 million, that's how much you would need to then be able to support yourself ongoing. But what Lawrence is saying is that Social Security, if it's around, hopefully it is, typically is $15,000 a year. So that reduces how much you need annually to live and survive, which is a good thing, if you get social security, which then decreases how much you need to save. So I'm doing this exercise with, you know, everyone just to think through like, because we talk about reaching financial independence, and it sounds good, but like, what about the numbers? Like, how does one actually do that. And so what Lawrence is saying is, if you can, like get that down to only being 875,000, because you'll also can depend on either Social Security or maybe a pension, then you need to save like, around 500, what was the number a month,

Lawrence Gonzalez 35:59

or $588 per month for 30 years,

Jamila Souffrant 36:02

so $588, that's how much you need to invest over time to get to this number of being okay. Now, I know some people are just like, Well, I'm not anywhere close to maybe being able to invest $580 a month. But I think even investing half of that, or a quarter of that still gets you further along than not doing it and to understand the numbers and how compounding interest works. Even if you have a shorter timeframe. So maybe you don't have like as long as 30 years you have 20 still puts you in a better position.

Lawrence Gonzalez 36:34

That's basically it. That's the idea is like, once we hear a lot of financial experts, they just drop the word like $1 million. Let's say you're making $35,000 a year, it sounds astronomical. But I wanted to break it down into such a way that we find out exactly what do we need to start off with? Where do you need to just figure out, Okay, can I invest? Can I start, you're gonna start noticing that your money compounds, so it's not you doing all this heavy lifting to get to the $1 million mark or $875,000 mark, this is something that compounds in your interest itself would actually pay you even more. So if you actually took this to the extreme and really focused it down to maybe even 800 a month, that will actually net you in 30 years. $1.3 million, but that 1.3, 1 million of it would would have been accumulated through interest alone. Yeah, yeah, that's reassuring, to me, it's not to say that this is the perfect thing, it's the reassurance that you could get into this situation, you get into this market, start actually investing in yourself, and then it can actually work out for you. So it doesn't have to be this zero sum game where nothing ever works, it can work, you just have to invest in yourself,

Jamila Souffrant 37:42

right, and you have to if you have to start out small, because you're in the process of paying off debt, fine, but just start because the time is gonna pass anyway, like, that's the thing, like, you know, in my early 20s, when I didn't really care about investing in my 401k. Like, if I would have did that not like, I would have had that money now, I would have had more money. So you know, God willing, will be here in 20 years, and you're gonna wish that you would have started. So when it comes to just like, where you are now, how do you view your future goals? So I know you know, you're getting married, which is an exciting time, you are looking ahead to your future? How do you first see like your money journey? Is financial independence, something that you're going towards? Are you more like, you know what, I like my job, I have no intentions of ever quitting, I'm good with where I am like, how do you see things?

Lawrence Gonzalez 38:32

Okay, two terms, I would say one, in five years, we're gonna reach million dollar status. That's the first thing million dollar net worth

Jamila Souffrant 38:41

invested. So in your portfolios together,

Lawrence Gonzalez 38:43

all everything all totality will be a million dollars plus. That's where we want to be justice. The whole point is to show other people that is very much possible. If you put some effort in it, I'm not gonna say is the easiest thing. It's not impossible. It's, it's, I guess it's a, it's improbable, but not impossible. So there's still a chance, there's still a little bit of an odd in there. And you can actually pull this off, and it doesn't have to take that long. So we're trying to pull it off in five years. And after that, in 15 years, we're going to retire. And in the retirement stuff, obviously, I guess they would call it financial, fire, you know, part of the fire movement, but me, I'll actually just tried to do a little bit more for the community try to even open up small business spaces so I can get smart businesses come in, and also provide even more services to the community because the more we, the more I feel that I can help other people, the better the community's going to be anyways, and the more it's almost like the more happiness around me. So no matter what it fulfills my own purpose. And all this at the same time that I know that my money is gonna keep growing as is invested at wherever it is. So part of what I'm doing now or part of what me and my fiance are doing is really suring up that boat, figuring out what we need to do. And for her, she's actually gonna start doing a little bit more discussions about Type one diabetes because she has type one diabetes. So there's a lot of different people that don't talk about it. So she just, that's what she wants to do to kind of share a little bit more. So gives a little bit more advice for people facing that, she was diagnosed when she was like a teenager when she was 16. So it's hard enough to be a teenager was harder, even more than thinking about, Hey, your mortality all day, every day.

Jamila Souffrant 40:22

Right, right. And that's the beauty of getting your money in order in this way. And you having money and being wealthy and financially independent and secure, allows you to one, to live a good life yourself, but then to also impact so many people around you, in a way that really makes a difference and through just like you showing people like you just went from saying, you know, in 2012 you're making $23,000 you know, you didn't finish your master's degree, you didn't finish your CPA, I don't mean to like run down all your like, worst parts. Like I just felt like and this was only what that's eight years ago. Yeah, it's not that long ago, and you able to transition now someone who was like earning over six figures, in five years projected to have a net worth of over a million dollars like this is possible for people. And I want to say just like, oh, if I can do it, then you can do it, or Lawrence can do it. You can do it. It's more of this quote. And I said earlier in the talk I did today that I just love it's like this concept of "If none can do it, you can be one. If one can do it, you can be two." So it's like, yeah, of course, your situation may be completely different, different starting point, but it's possible. And I just I just love your story, Lawrence.

Lawrence Gonzalez 41:38

Yeah, that's the whole point about it for me is, throughout the process, what I found more rewarding throughout the journey, exactly what it is, is the first part I learned about resumes and how much we need to develop our resumes, especially in the black and brown community, we have a lot of talented people, a lot of very smart and coherent people. When you look at the resume, you're like, ah, the resume got problems. And we need to tackle that. So the next thing I started to see, oh, we need to actually do a little bit better with our savings. Let's do a money challenge. Let's do that, oh, we need to do better with our 401k, we don't talk about it enough. So let's talk about it. Let's share stuff on Instagram, let's share whenever we see why not just share the podcast, let's share listening opportunities. On top of that, you just continue to always evolve to the next thing. So you think about taxes, what does that tax do? I help other people with their taxes. So we continue to do this, and I even help one of my buddies get his first home. So that was also like the money came to me. But I was also able to help directly with my own funds to help my other friend where I was the best man at his wedding, I ended up you know, helping him buy his first home. And now he also has a second art and things on his third rental property. Yeah, so it was almost like everybody can help each other could have this synergy. It exists. You don't, it doesn't have to be an actual number, I'm just gonna use the number to show people as possible. But the number almost, it could have been 500,000 doesn't matter to me, it's just I need to show you that it's possible. So you can actually start putting your foot to it. And then even if it takes you 30 years, but at least you've done more than nothing.

Jamila Souffrant 43:10

Yeah, and some of the things you just said brought up in me was one, I know what's going for the big goal, right? Like, okay, I want to like reach financial independence, I want to reach that million dollars, I want to pay off all my debt. But even the small things you're doing now, which you don't think you know, or that like, amazing. It's like, it is amazing, because like you talked about just like read your resume like this, like these are these are little pebbles, and little things that are little rocks that create the mountain. And you're talking about just like focusing on a resume, which seems so small, but is the catalyst that got you a better job and focusing on all these other things got you to the position you are today. So it just I think it's hopeful because wherever you are right now, you working on the small things, right? You're just working on that budget right now, you know, you're working on just learning and understanding the fees of your 401k. All that matters. And then on top of that you don't have to wait to reach financial independence and have all the money in the world to be of service or helping to help others. So you can help yourself, you can still do that on the journey. Like as you go as you teach you teach. Or as you learn, you teach what you're learning

Lawrence Gonzalez 44:12

I think part of a lot of people they don't know that they have their own story to tell. So I've listened to teachers who messed up on the public student loan thing. I'm like, you could teach other teachers how to not to mess up and that could become your bread and butter. I've seen other I ran into one kid, I guess I was doing a speech on a college tour, something that I went to one kid he said that he I guess he failed at the job and he filed for bankruptcy. And yeah, I didn't know exactly what that means for him. But I told him like he has a story now. it no matter how he crashed it no matter where he goes with it. He could go he could teach a course in college right now about what it is like to you know, at least file for bankruptcy. Yeah, it's a shame. He might feel shame from at the very beginning, but that might help him that might be the course correct. That creates the next book. I remember one story of a woman. Elizabeth White. That was her name.

Jamila Souffrant 45:04

Oh, she was on the podcast.

Lawrence Gonzalez 45:06

For whatever reason, she was faking normal. That was her big thing. She was faking normal. I was like, Oh, I think Yeah, she might have been a podcast then, I found online and I found her story. And that was her thing. She was faking normal and then one day she woke up, she wrote, you know, almost in the shame she just wrote, like, almost, yeah, to PBS or something like that. Yeah. And from that point on, her story became something else. Like she ended up being the author of that story going around the country giving tours, all these little things matter. So instead of hiding yourself, hiding the failures, hiding the things that are not so good, or even hiding the journey that you're on, share it, you never know, that might be the thing that helps you get out your journey faster.

Jamila Souffrant 45:50

Absolutely. And that was Episode 59. With Elizabeth White, she was on the podcast, and she talked about her story of like, like not literally not waking up to her finances and fixing things until she was 55 years old. This was amazing. Lawrence, I want everyone to know where they can like follow up with you and find you. So please share,

Lawrence Gonzalez 46:07

you could find me on IG primarily, @theneighborhoodfinanceguy, and also online at the neighborhoodfinanceguy.com, I basically try to share as much information as possible. If somebody has a question in the comments, or even a concept, I literally take that concept, go to Canva create a whole new thing. So I could actually teach not just yourself but everybody else about things that we all individually learning from. So that's what I love to do. That's what I'm about. And if anything, if you learn nothing from here, Stay Stay tuned and watch Journey to Launch. It actually helped me a lot helped me in the run. I hate running.

Jamila Souffrant 46:43

Same here. I don't know. Like why do we run then I don't understand why I go out and run if I hate it so much. It's an efficient way of getting workout

Lawrence Gonzalez 46:52

That's what they say. I wish I was one of those people that you know, I guess do the committal thing. But he's on I can't zone out.

Jamila Souffrant 46:59

Literally he has it when I'm writing. I'm just like, wait, why am I here? But then afterwards, I'm like, Okay, this is good. This is great. So all right. If you love this, it's something stood out for you tag myself, @jounreytolaunch, and @theneighborhoodfinanceguy on Instagram and your stories are in your post so we could see it and see what you liked about that episode. Thank you so much, Lawrence, again for coming on the show.

Lawrence Gonzalez 47:17

Thank you for having me. And thank you for doing what you're doing for the community.

Jamila Souffrant 47:25

Okay, I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Lawrence. I always like talking to people who are in the journey. So talking to someone who's within the journey, but also very transparent, right with their numbers. And what they're doing I think just hopefully will encourage you, no matter your starting point that things are possible. And I hope from this episode if you did gain anything let me know so tag journey to launch @Journeytolaunch and @Neighborhoodfinanceguy on Instagram. So share it on Instagram maybe your biggest takeaway or aha moment so we both can see it and respond and promote basically what you learn so others can know to check out the podcast.

Okay, it's time for DCU's Tip of the Week. Now, holiday shopping is upon us. The holidays are right around the corner. So if you in past years have been scrambling last minute for gifts or overspending. Consider shopping now. Use this early fall to prepare a gift plan and budget to shop earlier and smarter and spend less, there are lots of places right now giving lots of discounts and deals, so be on the lookout for them. And don't wait to the last minute. For more help reaching your money goals, check out dcu.org

If you want to check out the episode shownotes that's where you can get links to anything that's mentioned, and even get a transcribed version of this episode that you can read. Go to journeytolaunch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode. Now you can also still grab your free journeyer jumpstart guide by texting, launch to 33777 or go to journeytolaunch.com/jumpstart.

If you want to support me and the podcast and love the free content and information that you get here, here are four ways that you can support me in the show. One, make sure you're subscribed to the podcast wherever you listen, whether that's Apple podcasts, that purple app on your phone, your Android device, YouTube, Spotify, wherever it is that you happen to listen, just subscribe so you are not missing an episode. And if you're happening to listen to this and Apple podcasts, rate review and subscribe there I appreciate and read every single review. Number two follow me on my social media accounts. I'm @journeytolaunch on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. And I love love love interacting with journeyers. They're three support and check out the sponsors of this show. If you hear something that interests you, sponsors are the main ways we keep the podcast lights on here. So show them some love for supporting your girl. Four, and last but not least, share this episode this podcast with a friend or family member or co worker so that we can spread the message of Journey to Launch. Alright, that's it until next week, keep on journeying journeyers

Jamila Souffrant 0:00

You're listening to the Journey to Launch Podcast: Why the Money Gurus Are Wrong and Other Principles You'll Need To Understand To Reach Your Money Goals.

Recording 0:13

Welcome to the Journey to Launch Podcast with your host Jamila Souffrant. As a money expert who walks her talk, she helps brave journeyers like you get out of debt, save, invest and build real wealth. Join her on the journey to launch to financial freedom.

Jamila Souffrant 0:40

Hey, hey, hey journeyers welcome to the Journey to Launch Podcast. I am trying something new here. So if you're new to the podcast, welcome. Welcome to the Journey to Launch Podcast I'm Jamila Souffrant, and I am your Chief Launch Officer. And if you are not new here, you've been around, you've been listening to episodes welcome back. I don't know if I'm going to sound any different. I'm actually in my closet recording this episode because usually I recorded the podcast wherever you know, in the kitchen and in my room and very open space, but I'm trying my closet because I'm like maybe this will be even a better sound. So I can't promise this will always be the way it will be. But let's give it a try.

In this week's episode, I wanted to do a solo one I wanted to talk directly to you. I know I don't do enough of them. But I promise I promise I'm working on changing that things have been so crazy with remote learning, and getting work done in life and you know how it goes journeyers but my intention for this episode is to share with you just some principles, some things that I have realized along my journey, and I hope it will help you on your journey to financial independence. I am so excited to announce a new sponsor of the Journey to Launch Podcast Digital Federal Credit Union, also known as DCU. If you couldn't tell already from the name DCU is a credit union. And this relationship is special because I get to partner with a financial institution that gets it one that I feel is in alignment for myself and Journey to Launch is all about. I get to educate you and become even more educated myself on credit unions and why they are such a great option for your financial service needs. Unlike traditional banks, credit unions are not for profit financial cooperatives owned by and operated for members. You're not just a customer. When you bank at a credit union, you are considered a member. Credit unions are not for profit financial cooperatives that serve groups of members who have something in common, such as employment at a company, membership and an association, or residents in a particular geographic area. Their democratically owned and operated institutions rooted in people helping people principles. Each member has an equal vote, regardless of how much he or she has on deposit. Compare that to mutual banks, where the amount on deposit determines the number of votes a customer receives. Since credit unions have no outside stockholders after reserves are set aside, earnings are returned to members in the form of competitive dividends on savings, lower loan rates or additional services. When banking with a credit union like DCU, you are joining an institution committed to putting people first and making a difference in the communities where their members live and work. DCU has over 850,000 members nationwide, it's a win win situation, a win for your wallet and a win for your community. So as you can see, this is an exciting partnership for myself and Journey to Launch, you'll be hearing a lot more about credit union specifically DCU. Over the next few months, I even decided to walk the talk recently and signed up to be a member of my own local credit union MCU. And I opened up a savings account, it was super simple to join and took about 10 minutes to complete the online application. And I did it all from the comfort of my home. If you're interested in learning more, go to dcu.org. And keep a lookout for more content educating you about credit unions and DCU on the Journey to Launch Podcast. Plus stick around to the end for a new segment we're adding to the end of the show called The DCU money tip of the week where I'll be sharing money tips to help you save and manage your money so you can reach your goals. If you want any of the episodes, show notes too wherever you listen to this, there should be a more or description that you can click on. And that will take you to the website where you get even more links that may serve you and help you out.

Okay, so here's what I want to do. I want to talk about some truths. Some things I've realized, I don't necessarily want to call them principles, but maybe we can call them principles like just things that I know for a fact have helped me and that can help you in terms of how you view your money and this journey because this journey is pretty crazy. So okay, principle or truth one. And I guess when I say truth, listen, this is my truth. This is what I've discovered. But as you'll hear as I go through the these points, you ultimately have to come up with your own truths and what works for you. But here is number one, the gurus are wrong. Yes, the gurus, the financial gurus, everyone that you're following even myself, we can be wrong. Not all the time, not all the time. But when it comes to personal finance, you know, there's a very linear way of thinking about money. And you know, you should spend less than you earn, prioritize paying off debt, save, invest, you know, the rest, you've heard it all before. And you've been taught to think about money in a particular way. And don't get me wrong. Some of those are common sense principles that do work, like you should spend less than you earn, you should prioritize paying off debt, save, invest all the things, but let's be real, if it was that easy, everyone would be doing it, you'd be doing it. So the problem with most advice is that it lacks customization to make it work for you. For you listening, like your circumstances is unlike anybody's that, you know, sometimes there are a lot of similarities, but you you were walking entirely on your own path to financial freedom.

So what happens when life occurs, right, so an opportunity arises where it doesn't always make the best financial sense. But it makes the best intuitive sense. So on the surface, some very valuable opportunities don't appear to be financially sound, because it doesn't follow the typical guru money guru status quo, or what you should be doing. But doing that very thing will allow you to break through to the next level of your financial journey. So this is why financial freedom is not a one size fits all approach. Personal finance is personal. And so it's going to be something where you have to decide what works for you. And yes, there's a baseline of things that will set yourself up for success. But again, your journey is uniquely yours, and only yours to craft and travel.

So I just want to give you some examples of how, by me not following traditional financial advice, or just following what intuitively made sense for me, put me on a different path, like, totally, like, helped me with my financial goals. So if I would have followed the traditional financial advice, I would not have bought my first condo at 22 years old. And I promise I'm going to do a solo episode just about the whole my whole real estate background and buying my first property at 22. But I bought my first property at 22 in Dumbo stands for Down Under the Manhattan Bridge Overpass. So actually went into contract at 22, meaning it wasn't built yet. I bought into a big building and the studio apartment, so it was pre construction that I went into contract and it took two years for it to build. But even when I went in to put the money down for this apartment, like there's no way I could really technically afforded it. At that time, I just graduated from college, the good thing was I did have a job offer that I knew I was going to start making money and have a full time job. So I knew that money would come in. But you know, at that time, it was I think 15 years ago, so I started making $55,000 at my corporate job right out of school, which is not not bad. And so I knew I was gonna at least be making that much. But when I did the math on how much this condo would cost me on a monthly basis. Like I was barely going to be able to cover like the mortgage. So in order for this to work, there are a lot of things that had to happen in terms of in order for me to be able to purchase this condo, because first I had to put down 20% I had to put down 10% to hold the condo. And then at that closing in two years. So it took two years to build, how to put down another 20%. So luckily for me, I'd saved up money working in my internship during the summer. My mother also gifted me, God bless her money for the first towards this first 10%. And then I knew I had two years to save for the remaining 10% that I had to put down to actually get the condo closed, and I needed closing costs. And so when I did all the math, there was very tight to be able to do this at 22, 23, 24 years old. Because that's around the age that I was like doing all this right like, and then even more than that, it was how would I upkeep this apartment, because when I did the math on how much I'd bring home, it was just I probably cleared the mortgage after paying the mortgage a couple hundred dollars.

So the other thing I had to do was really save to cover my living expenses once I moved in. So following the traditional gurus advice, this would have been a very bad idea. You know, I will say even though I need to save this for that, that solo episode on this, that even when I went for the mortgage, I went for the mortgage It was like right around the time of the the the craziness of the real estate market where people were giving out no loan documents like you can basically get a loan with no documents. You didn't have to prove your income or anything. And that worked for me because when I went to go get my mortgage for this condo, again, I was barely able to really cover it with my income, but they didn't require any documents. So I was able to just, you know, tell them like my income and all these other things, and they gave me a mortgage. So I was one of the people that benefited from no loan doc mortgages at that time. Again, not a very smart financial decision, if you would follow the traditional advice of people talking about money, basically, I am risking all like the money that I put down already to close on this apartment. Because if you can't close on it, you lose your money. And then I'm going into apartment and buying something where basically my income is barely covering the mortgage. Now, of course, it was a calculated risk, because I don't know that I knew for sure that Dumbo would be what it is today. So now Dumbo today is like one of the most expensive places to own real estate in like Brooklyn or New York City. And even you know, by the time when I first went in, and like saw it pre construction, so this is like the sales, the sales office where they showed you what the building would look like. Dumbo, like it had no amenities, there was nothing built up. And for those of you who from New Yorker and who understand the area, you know, now that it is just like so, so developed and the place to be, but at the time, no one was there. And there were no really buildings there. So I don't know that I could say I knew that for sure that Dumbo would be what it is today. But I had I was like, Wow, it's by the water. I mean, I couldn't afford anything else. Quite honestly, I couldn't afford anything else. That's the only reason I went to looking at the sales place for this building, because I wanted a brownstone in Fort Greene, you know, even in Bed Stuy, but it was too expensive.

So, buying a condo was like, it just seemed a cheaper choice. And so I was willing, I said to myself, you know what, as long as I can close on this, and I can save up enough, I can afford this. I don't care what everyone else is thinking or that this may be a mistake. But what is the alternative? You know, I want to buy something for myself. So yeah, following the traditional advice, I would have never done it. But by the time I closed on this apartment, so it took about two years from when I signed the contract to moving in the property value or the price of the condo appreciated. So it actually even if I could not have closed on it or something, I probably would have found a creative way to sell it right while I was in contract, because it was worth more than what I bought it even without moving in. So again, this one decision that I made this one decision that went against everything that someone maybe would have done, has changed the trajectory of my finances, or my wealth of my children's wealth. So I still own that studio apartment today. And it's funny, because sometimes I look back, I'm like, oh, if I would have just pushed a little bit more, maybe I could have got a one bedroom, right. But you know, I'm happy with my studio. But literally, this is something that I'm looking at, we're just like, Wow, there are not too many people like me who own in Dumbo or own in this building. And the fact that I have this property now, you know, it's a smallest, it's the smallest apartment in the building. But it's mine. It's mine. And you know, my kids, it's right by the city. So you know, I think of it where you know, maybe my kids can take turns and living there for a couple years when they come of age. Maybe if they go to, you know, school in the city, they have this as their first apartment, like I'm able to pass this down. And you know, I really don't see myself selling it at all right now. And you know, I just think about, wow, what if I didn't take that risk? What if I would have followed that advice of make sure you have enough saved up, don't pay for something more than you can afford it, I would have never been in this position. And now that condo is probably worth double than what I paid for it. Right. So again, it was a very, very lucrative investment for myself the best investment I ever ever made. And I promise I'll do a whole episode about this. Because while that was a great investment, I also did something similar that did not turn out so great. But we'll talk about that in another episode.

The other thing I did that does not follow traditional financial advice was I quit my job. So a couple years ago, Around this time, I announced to the world that I quit my full time job, I did an episode on that I will link it in the show notes. I can't remember the number right now it's not in front of me. But when I started Journey to Launch, the whole point of Journey to Launch was to chronicle my journey to financial independence. And then I started the podcast. And the podcast was a part of that, right? I didn't know at the time when I started Journey to Launch that I'd want to Journey to Launch full time. But as I started to do more of this stuff on the side, I saw that this could literally be what I do to reach financial independence. So instead of going into work every day, and then, you know, coming home and I had a long commute. And then to add on that I was pregnant at the time when that when Journey to Launch was picking up and I already had two kids. I said to myself, I can't do it all. I have this really safe job that if I stayed at this job, and I really stick to you know, budgeting and saving and investing, we could reach our investing and financial independence goals probably by the time I had 40 years old.

So 40 was my target that I would be able to quit my job and not have to technically work if I didn't want to our mortgage would have been paid off based on this plan. So our highest expense would not have been something we had to worry about. And we could literally like live off my husband's income and then our investments, because my husband's income doesn't cover everything, but we can supplement it with investments that we made and passive income. And so wanting to now like change, like the whole, like all of that and say to myself, well, you know what, I don't want to stay at this job for the next four or five, six years, I want to try something different. I want to jump into entrepreneurship, because this is something that I want to experience now. I want to have freedom now. Right? I don't want to wait was definitely a risk that most people or some people would say, why are you going to take that, as you know, and especially at the time, Journey to Launch wasn't making much or any money, you know, so I think by the time I quit, that was 2018, I had given birth to Blake, that's my third child, my daughter, I given birth to her in May. And I announce officially, to my job, right, like at the end of my maternity leave that I wasn't coming back. And then when I did my episode about it, but at that time, it's not like Journey to Launch was replacing my income from my job. I just saw the potential of it, and we'd saved.

So the important step here is that when I decided that I was going to quit my job, I did save up money to be able to cover our expenses for the next couple years to help supplement my husband's income. But again, following traditional advice, you know, it'd be Make sure your business is earning this amount of money, it can cover this, you know, you're quitting your job with three kids now, a mortgage, you live in New York City. And like, that's, that's a big risk. Why are you doing that, but me internally, I knew that there was no other time. Like, there's no other time that this would make sense for me to try this, like, there's no way I would have came this far, God would have bought me this far for me to just continue on. Like, you know, I didn't see the light at the tunnel, right? It's almost like, you know, you see a light at the end of the tunnel. But you're choosing to not see it and ignore it. Because maybe it's too scary. Whatever the thing is, it's like, I just knew I would never forgive myself for not pursuing the light. And so these are the things where I couldn't really turn like I would maybe see inspiration and what other people were doing, but I couldn't turn to the traditional advice of people and money gurus for this for things I've done. But those, I would say big, big things I've done, you know, bought, bought the Dumbo condo and quit my job have been the things that have put me on, I think, an accelerated path. Now I think I know an accelerated path to freedom to financial independence. And so this is something that I'm encouraging you to do. While there is things that they're going to be baseline things, that standard advice that you should follow that your financial freedom journey will be different. And you have to create a flexible framework that allows you to take measured risk and make financial decisions that work for you. And what works for me may not work for you. But the idea here is to create the confidence and be able to take these calculated risk within your life.

And so you know, some of that could involve even when I did so if you've been following me for a little bit, you know that I teamed up with Teri, who does Trade and Travel the investment course. And that does really well with my journeyers with you guys, because it's a great way for you to learn how to invest. And I've had some people who they asked me, should I put this on my credit card? I can't pay for Teri's program up front. What should I do? And I always put it back on that even my sister, you know, she was on the podcast talking about she took Teri's course, and she put it on her credit card. And I would say this, you know, like, this is one of the things if you are in dire need, and you have to like you can't pay your groceries or your rent money. No, that's not your first priority is to look into buying a course at this point or investing in this way. But if you know if you feel it in the bones of your spirit, is that even a right way to say it, if you feel it, that this is something that you need to do. And that's you know, I would say in both of the instances where I took my risk, and oftentimes when I hear people take risk, they say like, it was almost like they they could not not do it. It was pulling to them, it would be like if they didn't do it, they'd be up at night thinking about it. And so I say that, like when it's like when it's too much like you don't know what to do, then it's possibly something you shouldn't do. But if it's something where you're like I this is its calling you, you know, you're going to be committed to the process, right? Like you're not going to give up, then you have to make the decision, right of if you're going to put something on your credit card that if it's going to be worth it to you that you're going to put in the work. And so, again, there may be some people where it's like no putting on your credit card is not a good idea. Buying a house or a condo where you can barely afford the mortgage is not a good idea. That's definitely obviously going to be truth for a lot of people but then they're going to be these little pockets of people where those opportunities right there. That's what's going to be something that's going to change your life forever. So you have to create the framework in which You feel confident to make those decisions. And understand that if those things fail for you, if they don't work out for whatever reason that you'll still be okay. That inner confidence then allows you to take these measured risks, and to understand what you're doing. So that was number one, that was a long number one because I went through some examples. But the Guru's are not always right, you have to create your own path and take measured risk and figure out what that is.

Number two, it's not a knowledge problem. So you most likely know what you should be doing to reach your goals in terms of all the standard advice, right, I kind of listed them in the other point, you know, that you should budget, earn more money, break bad habits, and still better habits, the internet is filled with millions of articles, and they're a million podcast, you probably listen to so many of mine that talk about a lot of this. And so it's not that you don't know what to do. You most likely know what to do, you just don't know why you're not doing it. Why you're not following through. So I don't believe a lot of it is a knowledge problem. Some of it when it comes to investing? Isn't you know, you don't know, right? You don't know. But a lot of it is not that because you have access to the knowledge because even with the investing, right, like Roth IRAs versus traditional IRAs and your 401 k account, like, technically, you can go to Google and search anything and find out information. So if you find yourself in the same cycle, are not able to execute, what is that about? Right? So I think a lot of it is these limiting blocks and beliefs that we have that are holding us back that we don't know. So you know, a lot of it could be that we overanalyze. So you know, there is something where it's like information overload, where there's too much knowledge, and then you're afraid to take the chance.

But even that is a limiting belief or something that's limiting you, because you need so much information to then make a decision that you just kind of like use as an excuse that you don't know what to do. And I've worked with, you know, whether it's in the membership, or when I did one on one coaching or group coaching, there's so many people that I work with, where, you know, they know what they should do, they want to create, you know, more income in their lives, they want to create a budget, and they have all the tools there to do it. But when you like peel it back, it's like, really, what's keeping them stuck is like this deep level of, you know, their desire for having money is not with their belief that there'll be a good person, right, they don't really believe they have a desire for something, but the belief is not there. I think that trips a lot of people up, right, so you want something so bad, but you don't really believe that it can be you or that, that it's in alignment with the way you want to live your life. And so you may think maybe that there's some shame around having more money, for whatever reason, maybe you think more people would want money from you, or your family or friends may think you're greedy or selfish, or it's like a vicious self sabotage the cycle that we put ourselves in of wanting something wanting to do these things to help us get to our goals, but then not doing it because of these limiting beliefs. So it's not that you don't know what to do, there's a deeper reason on why you're not doing it, which is why we like money. While it is a lot of you know, it's some it's, it's numbers. And it can be some math, that it's not that whatever is stopping you from earning more spending less, or optimize spending, I rather say, and investing in all these things, it's more of a mental shift. It's more of a mental inner game work that needs to be done. Because you can you can take the courses or like or, you know, even take like a salary negotiation course, or read an article on or maybe take a budgeting class, you can have all that information. And you can even do it one time, right? Maybe you're like, Okay, now I got the steps. And I'm going to say to my boss, my manager, this is what I'm going to say, or hear, Oh, I got this budgeting app, this is what I'm going to do.

But if internally, you don't feel confident, or you don't feel that you can follow through on these things, you're not going to continue on. So if you do at one time, you're not going to continue to do it. Whereas like budgeting and staying on top of your finances is not just a one time thing, you have to continue to do it. So like the templates, and the worksheets are great, because I you know, I have I love a good template and worksheet. But it's not just that it's not just simply telling you what to do. You have to find what blocks you have that are preventing you from actually like implementing what you're hearing, what you're learning, what you're seeing. So the knowledge is one thing but don't have that be your excuse. Because we can all access the knowledge. It's not that and to be quite honest, like you know, being good at money. It's not like you don't have to be good at numbers. It's really your mindset and your habits. So breaking down the inner work or the inner blocks are going to be really important for you to get to your goal. So again, number two was it's not a knowledge problem.

Okay, number three, you have more money than you think. I know you're like really Jamila if I had more money than like why would I be listening to you right now, but I'm serious, like you have more money than you think. So this is more about the opportunities that are right within your grasp that you can't possibly see yet. And whatever you maybe you don't see them yet, because you just you, you can't, your focus is elsewhere, or they don't look like opportunities just yet, you can simply just can't see him because one, you may also be just overwhelmed with life. You know, that happens often. And, you know, I experienced that myself even worse, just like there's opportunities that I could actually take, but I'm like, I don't have the capacity. Right. So I don't even look that way at them. Because I'm just like, I don't have the time or energy to pursue that. But when you can lift or lighten your load and understand that there are things around you there are there are jewels, waiting for you to discover, right from where you are, that can help you. So you know, I'm not talking about like I know right now that, you know, we're in trying times for some people are unable to pay them their bills. And really, it's hard to just get by, and I'm not talking about like that. Because I do believe this is a true issue for a lot of people. And you know, I understand that. But I'm talking about more than that. If you're passed the just getting by stage, and you know, you have a stable, stable, quote, unquote, stable job, and you make decent money, maybe there's a little leftover, maybe there's hardly anything left over. There's more opportunities, more things right in front of your nose right now. I just want to give an example. So for myself, you know, when we first sorry to say I first discovered financial independence and the fire movement, we were like probably living the typical American life in terms of we at this point we already had our home that we live in now. We had our cars, I believe, still, maybe we were in the process of like downgrading them or switching them out. But we and we were making decent money, right? So I was I was earning six figures working in corporate America and my husband's a teacher, but with his overtime, and his coaching and all these things he was doing. He was I'm earning six figures. So together, we made a good salary.

But we were also while we were never like horrible with money. So I'd say that, you know, we we always did pay our credit cards, we weren't really racking up debt, monthly, were able to pay our bills, we weren't investing and saving, we were barely doing that. I think I was putting like just enough to get the company match. My husband, he was like probably doing not much at all, I believe at first. And then I found out about the fire movement. And I'm just like, wait a second, there are people saving and investing in maxing out 401 K's. And then I heard Ed the Millionaire Educator. He was on the podcast. And I first heard him on another podcast. And he said like him and his wife, because they were both teachers maxed out their 457 plan. So they had access to a 457 plan and their 403B plan. So they were putting away like over half their like money every month into these investment accounts. When I heard that I was like, oh, wait a second. We we are hustling backwards here, you know. So I told my husband, we have to find a way to like be able to max out at least minimum, our account and we were able to do that. And it's crazy, like people ask me all the time, like, how did you go from because I like how did you go from maybe saving before we saw our first year that we were intentional about this. We saved invested $85,300. And then the following year, we saved and invested $84,100. But before that first year, we probably saved and invested I would say a fraction of that. A fraction of that. Because a lot of the money that we save invested did go into our retirement accounts. But before that, we were hardly investing in it. And even then, like those years, we didn't, I didn't feel like we were rolling in the dough.

So where did that extra money come from? And it really came from just like shifting our priorities. Like you know, we did in the middle of that we we change cars. So my husband had a very expensive lease for a car. And he's spending a lot of money a month on that I also had a luxury vehicle that had at that time the maintenance was like worn off on it. So it would was started to cost money to maintain it. We got rid of that that helped with our monthly bills. But then the most important thing we did was get a budget. We got a budget and prioritize things. So instead of you know saving what was left, after we spent money, we made saving and investing a priority. And so money started I said, we said we made a plan. And we said to ourselves, okay, we want to max out our retirement account. That's number one. Whatever comes home after that, that's what we have to work with. So there's no longer this big pot that we you know, take take take from spend and you know, pay bills and go out to eat and then we know that little bit at the end of the pot. That's what we save. It was like nope, we're going to save and invest aggressively. So let's put as much as we can before we even get our checks. So that's that pre tax stuff that directly comes from your check. Then you know, we got to pay our expenses that are important to us that we need to live. So the mortgage, the groceries, all these things, but even those like things, right, the rent the mortgage at a time that's fixed, but the groceries and the household goods and things that we need to do to survive, let's put limits on that, let's not just like spend, and then look at it later and not look at it all and wonder what happened. And that's what we did. So finding more money where you are, or having more money than you think, is a shift on goals and priorities. Our goal now was to save and invest. That's it my, like, I was so intense about reaching financial independence at the start of this in a short amount of time that like that was it.

And so right now, if you are in the position, again, I'm not talking about if you are struggling, I mean, even if you are struggling, you know, I want to challenge you that you know, you can do better you can, you are on this journey with me, like I'm not leaving you behind. But I just want to be empathetic to you if you are feeling that you don't have any room. But I'm going to challenge that many of you you listening, you have room right now, to do something different, or to think differently, or to switch something around. And you know, quite honestly, it can be something as small as like having more money more money than you think could be as small as you switching like you have savings account, right and maybe have a traditional savings account, you have like $10,000 in it, which is great. And I know saving rates right now are not that great. But at a bank, you're probably getting a traditional bank, you're probably getting point 01 percent on your $10,000 in your savings account, switching it to a high yield online account at or online bank. You know, again, rates are not crazy high, and I can't even tell you what rates are now, but you can maybe instead of earning point 01 percent on that 10,000 earn 1.5% or 2%. Which, you know, I know, for some people, it's like, oh, what's an extra $20 $30? You know, and I don't even know if that's a math on that. But it's money, it is money. And there's some things where you have to do like, okay, does it you know, this the time it takes to like research and make the transfer and do that is it worth it. And there are some times where it's not. And there's some times where it is, but sometimes seeing more opportunities, and switching your goals around to put really what matters to you first, and then just like taking action will allow you to see and unravel money that you didn't know that you had. And some of it is just like by switching accounts, some of it is by like making something automatic. And you'd be surprised at how much money more money you have accessible to you that you don't know it's right under your nose. So in order for you to get to where you currently are to where you want to be or have to just look at things differently. You have to be willing to see the opportunities and the obstacles and leverage, leverage where you are right now to get to where you really want to be.

Okay, point four principle for buy more shares of you. I've talked about this on the podcast before. I'm so passionate about this. You know, when we talk about investing and reaching financial goals, most of you know the people that you may listen to, they will talk about investing in the stock market or real estate or something else, which I totally get right. Like I just said that real estate was one of my best investment. But honestly, like I am my best investment. You know, I think back that my mom like thank god like she and I know she listened to this Hi mom. She like viewed me as an investment. She poured so much into me. And I say this for like moms, especially if you feel like so my mom was a single mom, she didn't really have much resources while I was she was raising me. And so she viewed me as an investment. And she poured into me a lot of love. So it wasn't even as like pouring in money into me. You know, I didn't have all the latest things and all these things like that were more superficial, but she had she poured so much like knowledge and attention in me that I feel like that is created like did you Mila you see today. And so for the moms listening, it's a little tangent now especially single moms, because my mom was a single mom, is that if you feel like you're not obviously in the position to do a lot with money for your kids, that you can put your kids in the position to accomplish what you want to and not only that, because I would say this about my mom, even though like she poured so much into me and she had to delay or she didn't have much herself. She right now because she you know, she poured into me. I did well, so I'm not like a leech. I don't need to you know, to go to her for anything. She also in the same time was bettering herself and she's put herself in such a better position now. So you know, and she's fairly young. So she's in her mid 50s and she's doing really well for herself. And so I just I just I just say that when it comes to investing in yourself, don't always look at it as investing in like the stock market or real estate, you know, moms that come to me and say hey, I want to start you know, investing for my kids college fund or doing all this stuff so that their kids have wealth, which is great, right?

But if you are not in position to do that, or you're barely investing in own retirement, then pour it into more more into your child in other ways, with the love with the attention. And so that really goes into the buying more shares of you, meaning like now for yourself, how can you do that for you? How can you show yourself or, or have a bigger return on any investment you make? Because, you know, like, if you look at like the annual return of the stock market from its inception, so let's just say you're investing in stocks, and you're investing over time, right, like the investment could be like, 10%, I think that's like the annual rate, I could be wrong, like, over like the inception of the stock market. But when you like, invest in yourself, there's no way to measure the return. When I think about the programs I've invested in, in terms of business development, for Journey to Launch, and myself as entrepreneur, even before that, you know, just like personal development stuff, you know, investing in time away, in terms of like self care, and all these things, my knowledge and skill set, all those things like I can't even directly sometimes measure the return. Because those things have allowed me to have the confidence. The chutzpah is a how you say it, the education and take some of the risk of that I've taken take some of the action. And those actions directly do result into more money into more opportunities. And so you have to learn how to separate. Yes, investing in the stock market and your retirement account, and real estate, but really set aside, set aside some money and set aside some time to invest in you.

Because the amount you can make on yourself is like limitless, the possibilities are endless. The unique thing about it is like you know, there's a stock market crash stock market's been like going crazy, obviously, for the last few months, real estate has a potential to go crazy, there's a crash, it can wipe out your entire portfolio, or your equity, right for a period of time, not forever, but it can knock it out. And then now what right. But if you have inner wealth, if you are investing in yourself, so that knowledge, the skill set the creativity that can never be taken from you know, you hear sometimes, like if a millionaire like someone who becomes a millionaire, or has a lot of money, you can take that all away from them. And they will most likely become millionaires again, because of who they became like the the, the information that it took them, the journey it took for them to be that is like something you can never take away from them. So you can take away all their physical possessions, but you can't take away who they are.

And I always say this Jay Z's line famous line, I call it a famous line, because always remember, it "Put me anywhere on God's green earth, and I'll triple my worth." And I just saw that as you could put me anywhere, you can plot me anywhere in the world, and I'll be able to be okay. And that to me is when you buy more shares, are you able to do that?

So the other thing I want to bring up, especially when it comes to money, and you know, like financial kind of advice, and a lot of things is like, you try to cut expenses. Now I get it right, you probably you hear it all the time cut expenses, cut expenses, take everything out everything DIY was some things you know, are DIY, you want it to be doing DIY, do it yourself. And this can work for a lot of people, but I gotta say it doesn't work for most people that at least I've come in contact with. So when I say like DIY, I mean like googling like articles, which you have all access to listening to free podcasts. Amazing, amazing, like, people like people saying how much they've been able to do just by listening to the podcast. And I'm like, yes, this is amazing.

And then I feel like there's a segment of people who are listening, maybe see you maybe not, I'm not trying to call you out. But it's like, you have all this and it's like, now what, now you got to implement, but something's still holding you back, right? And so a lot of times, it may be because you're afraid to invest in that thing, right or afraid to get the support you need, or the free resources more, calls you more, but I gotta say, I've always saw that, like, I've taken things more seriously, you know, when I paid for it, and the more I paid for things before I take it seriously. So like if I paid $10 for something, you know, if I miss it, or I don't follow through on it, it's like, it was $10 if I pay $1,000 for something, oh, you best believe I'm gonna show up. Not only that, but when I put down that money when I made that purchase, or I bought that course, I already said to myself, I'm committed because if I wasn't committed, I wouldn't have paid the money.

And so it's that transformation in investing in yourself in buying more shares you like it doesn't matter to me like the spectrum of it. So I'm not going out and saying like the school find like $10,000 course not saying that. What I'm saying is really take time to get resources. Free of course, right free is great, but also paid ones that can help you write paid ones that actually can get you closer to your goal. So whether that's learning how to invest, whether it is budgeting, whether it is maybe something you need for your job. Something what is it that you can, if you're paying for it, you're going to be committed, and you're going to actually implement. And to me, when you pay for things, when you buy it, you're buying, you're buying into it, because you believe you're going to do it. And because if you don't do it, that's really money on you that you're not you're not really utilizing. So I want you to think about, really how you invest. And the realization here is that you really have to get that idea of that investing is not just outside things, it's really you.

Okay, I think we are now of 2.5. This is my last point, my number five is that you have to get the right support. And you have to get customized help and a community to support you. So right support looks like different things. Let's talk about like the different levels of support, you can have community support, which I think is extremely, like important. And it's funny because like you community can be people like where it's like direct contact, where they know you, and you know them, and it could be direct family members or friends. And it could be online, always bring up like, the internet is a crazy world. But at least it's good for if you want to meet and see other people doing things that encourage you. So even if it's just like following a hashtag on Instagram, you know, like they have hashtags like debt free community, or, you know, following accounts, Journey to Launch, if you follow my account, and there's so many personal finance accounts are getting out of debt, people who don't even like they're not even like they don't even have like, like a business about it. They're just sharing what they're doing. They're sharing how much they're spending on groceries, they're sharing how they're negotiating more money, it's just like they're sharing their wealth journey, you can find all that online. And so some of that, again, it's like you don't even know people in person, but you know them virtually. And just, you're maybe in a Facebook group, or you maybe pay, right you pay to be in certain communities, like I have the Money Launch Club, that's a paid community, where you come in, and like you're really surrounded by people serious about reaching financial independence, and you get the support and tools you need, right.

So there's so many ways in which you can find the support, but you have to get the right support. And because community is so important, and this is I've seen this in my like life to where if I'm around like either, even other entrepreneurs, when I surround myself with other entrepreneurs, like who are doing what I want to do, meaning like we're at the same level, but maybe they're like, steps ahead, or maybe like miles ahead. I am so much more motivated. Because the norm now is to, like succeed. There is no kind of like, ah, like, I don't know about this entrepreneurship thing and making money is it possible. It's like I'm seeing people around me like earning six figures, seven figures, breaking barriers, writing books, I'm just like, okay, that's the norm, that's something I can do, too. Let's do it. I'm so motivated.

So it works in any area of your life is finding the community support you need. And again, taking it back to the other points, like not being afraid to invest in it, if you need it. Not also, even though you're in a community, and you have support, while what they're doing is working and should take into consideration if you know someone has more knowledge than you, it's like, ultimately, it's all gonna fall onto into your lap into your hands your future, you're the only one in charge of it. So understanding what works for you. And taking it knowing when to take advice and knowing when not to is critical. That's the only way really, it can work. So those are my five, like principles and tips, I'm just going to recap and like go down a line on them one more time.

Number one is the guru's can be wrong, you have to find your own way figure out really what's gonna work for you because it's different. No one has the same life circumstances or opportunities that you have. Number two, is not a knowledge problem. So you most likely know what you should be doing. It's not that you don't know it's why you're not doing it. And that's that mental mental work that we have to do that internal work that is the hardest, it's the hardest thing that we all do. Number three is you have more money than you think. So right now there are more opportunities right under your nose, you just maybe can't see them yet. And you just have to make some changes, shift some goals around, but it's there, it's there for you. It's just about changing your perspective. Number four, buy more shares that you you are your biggest investment. Do not be afraid to invest. I've never seen anyone be successful without them taking a risk and taking a risk means investing. So yes, there's an opportunity for loss or not following through because for whatever reason, but you won't get from where you are right now to where you want to be without taking the step. And taking that step involves risk. And so doing that means buying more shares of you not always investing in outside things. Number five is get the right support. So whether that's community support, whether is investing in a coach. Don't be afraid to get the right support to learn from people who are also on the journey with you. Community is important, resources are important. So I hope that helps you. I know that these things when I think about them have when I think back on how I've gotten to where I am today, those have been big parts of it, understanding those principles have been very important. And I also want to just remind you, depending on when you're listening to this journeyers my FI course, my 10 steps to FI course is now open for enrollment, but doors are closing pretty soon, depending on where you hear this episode.

So check us out they're open from October 23 to October 29. You can join us right now at journeytolaunch.com/ficourse. And if you want the episode shownotes I know I like reference a couple episodes in here that you may want to listen to. I will link that in the show notes. Just go to like more wherever you listen to this and it should take you there and make sure you're following me on social media. I'm @journeytolaunch. Let me know what you thought of this episode. Let me know if you thought of a principle that stood out for you or something I said I always love to see that. Tag me @journeytolaunch so I can see it and repost it and respond. And yeah, that's all I got for you this week. journeyers.

Okay, as promised, I am introducing a new segment sponsored by DCU and it's going to be called DCU Tip of the Week. Sometimes I include one or two or three tips. It depends. The goal of this is to be short and sweet and just give you some quick wins for your money.

So let's start it off to tip for this week is seek out free or low cost entertainment. So although fall events such as the harvest festivals and haunted houses may not be happening as they used to before the Coronavirus. There's still time to celebrate in the season while maintaining social distance. Local farms may offer a pick your own apples and pumpkins with safety protocols in place. A walk or hike to see nature's changing colors can also be free. I for one have discovered a marvelous trail and park not too far from me. So I enjoy now taking the kids on a walk or running myself there. If you follow me @JamilaSouffrant you'll see my adventures when I go running and walking on the trails. Okay, that's DCU tips of the week. For more tips on how to improve your money go to dcu.org

If you want to check out the episode shownotes that's where you can get links to anything that's mentioned, and even get a transcribed version of this episode that you can read. Go to journeytolaunch.com or click the description of wherever you're listening to this episode. Now you can also still grab your free journeyer jumpstart guide by texting launch to 33777 or go to journeytolaunch.com/jumpstart.

And don't forget now's your chance to join us at the Journey to FI 10 step course. We are enrolling right now but doors closed pretty soon. So join us at journeytolaunch.com/FI course.

If you want to support me and the podcast and love the free content and information that you get here, here are four ways that you can support me in the show. One, make sure you're subscribed to the podcast wherever you listen, whether that's Apple podcasts, that purple app on your phone, your Android device, YouTube, Spotify, wherever it is that you happen to listen, just subscribe so you are not missing an episode. And if you're happening to listen to this and Apple Podcasts, rate, review, and subscribe there. I appreciate and read every single review. Number two, follow me on my social media accounts. I'm @JourneytoLaunch on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. And I love love love interacting with journeyers there. Three, support and check out the sponsors of this show. If you hear something that interests you, sponsors are the main ways we keep the podcast lights on here. So show them some love for supporting your girl for. And last but not least, share this episode this podcast with a friend or family member or co worker so that we can spread the message of Journey to Launch. Alright, that's it. Until next week, keep on journeying journeyers.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai